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Kennethhartanto
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Kennethhartanto
241 posts
Constable

Hey guys i'm starting a new thread.

Have you ever thought that maybe terrorism is, in itself flawed as a word? Because there are lots of different perception on who's terrorist and who's countering it. tell me what you think. Also is terrorist some kind of propaganda type word? implying that there is no such thing is terrorist in general.

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Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
1,373 posts
Blacksmith

Cowman, thats not terrorism.


Stop calling me Cowman. That name isn't even the anatomically correct nickname.

And killing in itself does not make one a terrorist. Again, a lot of these terms are not mutually exclusive.


That's what I was saying before, the word terrorism I believe is used incorrectly sometimes. Serial killer and murderer could be as well.

If people's fears should logically outweigh their goals, why would anyone ever do anything?


Well, fear of failure is one. Fear of death is another. In the logical sense of things no one truly wants to die. There are too many variables to deem life impossible to live therefor the only way you would know is to live your life fully. I doubt someone would dedicate their life to one message that might go unheard.

But then again, people live the way they chose to. Some obscure, others plain and meaningless.

I say, a terrorist is one who use terror acts to make a stronger force accept his terms, or bringing his cause to the peoples mind.


Fear does not make people listen to a message or accept someones terms. Not without an ultimatum.

A terrorist can be armed by s knife. The one who murdered the sleeping rookie on the bus last week stabed him with a pocket knife. Does this make him a terrorist? He did it for his ideaoligy (against negotiating and against Israel).


This will not make people accept this person. It will always lead to the world going against you because of who you chose to be, which is illogical and unnatural. It's one thing to make a big scene just so people can acknowledged your existence, it's another to murder people because of free will.

The one thing that people don't seem to get is that when you enforce your beliefs or ideologies onto someone they will fight you to the death. No one man is capable of knowing all about the world and what it contains, people don't seem to get that, and they usually do so by force. I can't tell you how many times I've heard stories about a guy almost shooting a Jehovah's Witnesses because the guy wouldn't stop knocking at his door and shoving stories about Jesus down this randoms guys throat.

Terrorism is the same. If you have something you want or feel the need to say and are willing to die for and make others die for as well you are not running on logic. You'd be a fool to think that you hold the answers to the world and because of that you can murder people as you please.
Kennethhartanto
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Kennethhartanto
241 posts
Constable

Well, a very long way from talking about definitions of words eh?

Terrorism is the same. If you have something you want or feel the need to say and are willing to die for and make others die for as well you are not running on logic. You'd be a fool to think that you hold the answers to the world and because of that you can murder people as you please.


unfortunately, right as you are, it can't explain why do people do an act of terrorism. You are saying that the people that did the act didn't run on logic, well what do they run on? Stupidity? some Ideology, religion, whatever? Or they don't really have a base on what they did because some people brainwash/indoctrinate them?

The one thing that people don't seem to get is that when you enforce your beliefs or ideologies onto someone they will fight you to the death


Actually, not always. Remember North Korea? the people residing there can be said to have been fully indoctrinated (I think no one aren't worshiping their "great leader" or such), so i think given enough time and energy, you can in a sense change anyone's mindset. But of course that takes a long time and usually the process would stop in the middle, allowing the victim to maybe recover their true beliefs.

Stop calling me Cowman


If i may ask, why does he called you cowman? pretty sure your name was minotaur.

First of, there are many kinds. There is the "single", ehich is basicly a man waking up in the morning and deciding to go kill Israelis. He can plan, even bring a friend, but he dose not connected to any group. He will leave a papper, a "last words".


1. And why do you think he does that? You bring it up on yourself with your military campaign against the Arab states( well they could be partly blamed for attacking first, but you go way too far on the counterattacks)
2. why does it have to be Israelis? Why not Palestinians that you slaughter during the second intifada? aren't that in itself form of state terrorism?
3. a man wouldn't wake up in the morning and picked an AK, lots of ammo, and a bomb vest , then proceed to slaughter everyone in sight. In itself it isn't logical because he would give his life away for nothing, unless you are implying that there ARE people that do not base their actions on self benefit and recognition from everyone or logic, because he would lose all and gain nothing
danielo
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danielo
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Answers:
A)

stop calling me cowman
ok... bullman is better? Minutaor it will be...

1) He dosent do it for you to understand. He do it to make presure on you to do it. You wouldnt speak about Al-Quaida if they didnt did what they did. If not so many soliders would die in Iraq, who will demand the to leave?
Tweror is not for you to accept them. Its for the population to talk about. And peoples want peace. So when terrorists keep their attacks, they try to make you to act as they want. These terrorists use you to do the work. They want USA to accidently hit civilians. This is why they hide among them. So peoples in USA will cry and yell and deman and here we go! USA is going out.
The terrorist try to manipulate you, but also his base population. Ahowing how much powerfull he is. This is how they grow. The more you do and the more you "market" these act, the more funds you get from rich seikhs in Qatar and from Iran, the more peoples wanting to join you, more attention from the media to your cause, etc.

2) So i see you dont like Israel very much. Hello. I am from Israel. My name is Daniel. I serve in the army. Yes, the evil IDF who send helicopters to desteoy little kids candies.
I know we are not saonts, bad things happen, but we didnt slaughter anyone. Exept some major events, in which the criminals were punished, in most cases it was the poor results of a clash between rioters and army units. Im sure that in tour opinion we (the Israelis) should all just suicide and end the story, but when a mob march to your stand, its a very hard and tense situation. And belive it or not, Israelis died too! Yea, when a person threw a molotov coktail on a bus, or when a TERRORIST bombed himself in a resturant, or in a nofht club, or in a caffee, or in a hotel...

3) what if i told you that these things happened? In Itamar, two teens entered a settlemnts, stole a station M-16, and killed a family in there house. First two kids at the age of 7 and 4, then two parents, then a baby that was sleeping in another room. I belive they didnt planed it, they said in there interogation that they just wandered around looking for a gun, then entered an empty housr, exit, and went to another.

Dont try to find logic. Ill give you another example. There are many organozations in Gaza. I sure you know Hamas, but there are more. And how they "live"? They shoot rockets on Israel, they try to kiddnape, they shoot on buses (used to). This gave them prestige. All they want is predtige, and you to know about them. No one will speak on free Ireland if these groups (i forgot the name, IRF i belive) wouldnt bomb cars in london or assassinate officials. They bring it up. As i said, they want the news pappers to discuse ot, they want you to ask yourself who is right. They did it with Kenn. If they didnt do these major things that give media attention, did he knew that there is a conflict here in Israel (he wouldnt, because there would be none)?

Do you understand? They dont think in your logic. Its a diffrunte logic. Which apearently quite work.
Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
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Minutaor it will be...


I'll take bad spelling over anatomic inaccuracy.

If i may ask, why does he called you cowman? pretty sure your name was minotaur.


Yeah I thought it was too. Apparently he didn't get the memo.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7899/memob.jpg

You are saying that the people that did the act didn't run on logic, well what do they run on? Stupidity? some Ideology, religion, whatever? Or they don't really have a base on what they did because some people brainwash/indoctrinate them?


Well brainwashing is down the drain. I don't even know how to reply to that.

What I'm saying is indeed that terrorists run off of emotion and not logic. It's a simple start in terrorism, you can hate people or a country (which is an emotion) and everything that comes with it is motivated by that emotions initiative. You can have a highly calculated plan but the reason behind it can be through pure hatred. Many terrorists do not seem to have a lack of mental stability (very little though) so they have to be running on another motive. Logic is out the windows seeing as I have stated the reasons I think that is implausible. The only thing I see that would be a motive or cause to terrorism is emotional troubles (most of the time, they could just very well be bat crap crazy).

It makes sense why it would be emotion. Many people act upon anger these days in visual displays of violence, some small others that could be equal to that of "terrorism". However running on emotion doesn't mean you can't use logic in the thing you wish to achieve; for example, a Muslim terrorist blowing up a building full of Americans. He may hate Americans and attack them for that reason and that reason alone, logic comes into play in planning a attack.

When I said that terrorists ran off of emotion I didn't mean it in the sense that they are dumb oafs that get lucky every strike they make. I meant that the root cause of the attacks may very well be just off of hatred.

Do you understand? They dont think in your logic. Its a diffrunte logic.


I doubt that it is even logic they run by. Logic should mean when you consider all fields of anything and come up with one unarguable conclusion that pertains to truth. I guess I didn't get that memo...
Binary_Illusion
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Binary_Illusion
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The word terrorist merely means to express someone or something that causes terror.... large scale fear.
One could postulate that governments are terrorists, big corporations are terrorists, or large religious sects are also terrorists. The wonderful thing about language, is the fact that the meaning is all within the context

danielo
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danielo
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Peasant

This is wher you are wrong Mino. They do alot of thinking. Its not a spontanius act. Most of the complicated attacks are planned to details.

They know what they are doing. They gather information. They have experts. They have logistics and financials managers.
Its not a crazy man who grab a gun and start shooting. There are these too, but yet there are these who conspirate and freud.

Kennethhartanto
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Kennethhartanto
241 posts
Constable

So i see you don't like Israel very much. Hello. I am from Israel. My name is Daniel. I serve in the army. Yes, the evil IDF who send helicopters to destroy little kids candies.
I know we are not saints, bad things happen, but we didn't slaughter anyone. Except some major events, in which the criminals were punished, in most cases it was the poor results of a clash between rioters and army units. I'm sure that in your opinion we (the Israelis) should all just suicide and end the story, but when a mob march to your stand, its a very hard and tense situation. And believe it or not, Israelis died too! Yea, when a person threw a Molotov ****tail on a bus, or when a TERRORIST bombed himself in a restaurant, or in a nonfat club, or in a cafe, or in a hotel


I never say that i hate Israelis or if Israelis are evil. I'm just bringing up a fact that during the second intifada you DID killed over 3000 Palestinians, and lost 1000 Israelis. And you do the deed by large scale incursion ( or invasions). I know that Israelis died, well of course some died, they are not invincible.Now i ask one more time, was that a form of state terrorism? Don't try to run away from the question. And one more thing, i never wished that all of Israelis should just go to hell or such. But you Israelis should just stop the charade. don't you know how many families, Palestinians ones, that can't even live a proper life thanks to your incursion in the past?

I still remembered that in the World War 3 theory, you said that if Iranians have nuke you can't stop them. Well you are just being hypocritical because Israelis have nuke in the first place before the Iranians even did the uranium enrichment program. Try this link on for more info. If in that matter you lied to the world, and then throw the spotlight on Iran that wants to make one, then i highly doubt your country trustworthiness.
Kennethhartanto
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Kennethhartanto
241 posts
Constable

When I said that terrorists ran off of emotion [b] I didn't mean it in the sense that they are dumb oafs that get lucky every strike they make [b]

Minotaur's
This is wher you are wrong Mino. They do alot of thinking. Its not a spontanius act. Most of the complicated attacks are planned to details.

danielo's

Well Daniel, as you can see Minotaur already said that they DID do a lot of of planning by saying the bolded sentence above. of course they planned their actions, they can't inflict maximum pain without one.
Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
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Blacksmith

Well Daniel, as you can see Minotaur already said that they DID do a lot of of planning by saying the bolded sentence above. of course they planned their actions, they can't inflict maximum pain without one.


Finally, someone see's what I'm talking about. I'm looking at the act of terrorism in the root cause. Not the how, I'm looking at the why. You can plan something and continue a action for as long as you want but knowing why trumps everything else. It gives what you do a meaning and purpose.

Plus I just said that it isn't a spontaneous thing. I just said that they are planned but the reason(s) behind these acts are, I think, not based off of logic.

Its not a crazy man who grab a gun and start shooting. There are these too, but yet there are these who conspirate and freud.


In a way though, they are crazy. They are overlooking better judgement and doing what they do not taking into consideration how it will effect their people and ours. They don't know (or consider) that they divide people and make themselves more alone in what they do. No man wants to die, no man naturally would wish death on others.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Jester

Skimmed arguments so far..will get back to em later. For now, thought I'd drop in the definition of "terrorism" to help with the arguments.

Terrorism
The systematic use of violence (terror) as a means of coercion for political purposes.
Wiki

Although there is no legally binding definition, the common occurrence for one to be labeled a "terrorist" is the systematic use of fear. As stated in the wiki, this is usually for religious, political, or ideological goals.

danielo
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danielo
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Peasant

The Beduians in Sinai attacking eygeptians soliders. Yesterday a car exploded near a bus of soliders going home for vacation. 11 peoples died. Terror attack or "legit" fighting?

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Terror attack or "legit" fighting?

It seems the army bus was part of a military convoy. And they weren't going home, but coming back:
Al-Arabiya TV reported that the soldiers were returning to the Rafah border post after a brief vacation.
Source

So, legit in the sense that they were military targets in a military vehicle, but terror attack in the sense that violence was (likely) used to show political unrest.
metalplastic
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metalplastic
191 posts
Nomad

It's like planception.

danielo
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danielo
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Peasant

So, the question now is -
What come first? Does an attacker of a terror group is a terrorist, or a group is a terrorists group for using terror?

If these *insert title here* beduians attack a base, is it a legit fighting move, or a terror move? Does it the goal that count or the action?

thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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Nomad

All I can say is, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

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