Forums → WEPR → How can we fix Israel/Palestine?
| 22 | 14176 |
This probably sounds insane, but what if a treaty was created forbidding any state owning an part of Jerusalem, and putting the whole thing under the control of a neutral party? It would give the Israelis and Palestinians a common enemy at least. Also, the opposing parties need to get a life, put aside their differences and show a willingness to negotiate, because frankly squabbling over the land little children makes outside observers less inclined to help.
- 22 Replies
Macll, again you play this game of Etymology? Sorry, "arabic population of Israel". Or mqybe "The palestinian west bank Authorities" as Hamas in gaza prefer to try to conquer us instead.
Sure the mans in the uniform vs rhe man in a rebel look make us look bad. As holywood tought us, rebel = good, Authority = Evil. Thats the problme. We are so fed up by metrix and ****, that a man in a suit or a solider is evil while the braVe young rebel is a pure hearted hero. So yea, war is not nice. And im sure the viewr from the side will prefer it to stop so when he drink his coffee he can read news about somethinf else that wont bother him.
You dont realy care about Israel - Palestinians. You just want to get a "happy ending" and to move on. Like you dont card about Libya anymore,hpw these "democracy fightets" now butcher each other, you will move on as quickly as possible after whatever will happen here in Israel.
You dont realy care about Israel - Palestinians.
They are all people, and all people deserve a chance at least to have a good life.
braVe young rebel is a pure hearted hero
One thing I feel is forgotten too often in today's world is that people aren't born angry religious zealots or terrorists. Something, or somebody indoctrinates them to that view. The followers of Hamas will have grown up in a climate that is fiercely anti-Zionist. All their life, they will have been taught that Israel is evil and wrong and it is their duty to bring an end to it. They don't have access to another point of view like us. They are innocents who believe their actions are in the greater good. And in the name of the greater good shall the worst evils be wrought.
danielo.. I understand you are resentful. But all your accusations go both ways, really. Many Palestinians hate Israel; many Israeli hate Palestina. While many might hate you, at least some are trying to negotiate. And sure, on the field there will be some that will shoot rockets on Israel the same minute that the delegates are negotiating with you; but while you are negotiating with them, your politicians build walls and settlements trying to gain as much terrain before a possible agreement can be done.
And yes, your wall might serve some purpose of defense, but this doesn't make it untouchable; you very well know there are some ugly truths out there, and if you forgot about some, I find this article quite.. interesting:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2009/apr/30/wall-a-monologue/?page=1
Basically I think many people see the situation as two persons reaching one hand to the other, but raising the other hand to strike making them retracting the peaceful hand. For my part, I feel like there are at least four persons involved; two trying to shake hands, while on each side someone else is throwing stones on the opposite friendly guy. Why don't you try to ignore those stone throwers and try to establish peace with the friendly? Of course you will still have to deal with the radicals afterwards, but won't that work so much more easily if the moderate of each side have an union/agreement?
... I just came across this, hadn't looked at the blog for a while. No, it's not about Palestine and Israel, as such, and as so often, it explains nothing -- or then perhaps it does explain "all," or should we say something at least.
The bit about Burroughs' & Co's Tangiers "Interzone" and (lack of recorded) local perceptions thereof, incidentally, rang some definite bells with me regarding my own experiences as a Western "traveler" (in the modern sense of the word, let's say of the contemporary beatnik hippie'esque countercultural type, or should we say simply a backpacker) to India; as well as having been brought up as such in one of our colonies abroad.
The author is himself Jewish, in case it needs mentioning; and of course an avowed Marxist, as well as an anti-Zionist, as far as I can tell. Which I guess would by definition make him a "self-loathing Jew" to some; or a coffeeshop dweller I suppose, albeit American in his case Given his state of conduct, I'll take his informed subjectivity over y'r average Israeli conscript's parroting of state propaganda any day, thank you.
Louis Proyect, "Critical Muslim" (on the Jan.-March 2014 issue of the magazine of that name); note also where he refers in it to another article of his, "Voices of the Mizrahim: The Plight of Arab Jews" (May 2013).
your politicians build walls and settlements
And as of course declared illegal by the UN, mind.
Go tell that to the next pinko figment of your imagination.
Why don't you try to ignore those stone throwers and try to establish peace with the friendly? Of course you will still have to deal with the radicals afterwards, but won't that work so much more easily if the moderate of each side have an union/agreement?
Politics in both Israel, and the Palestinian governed areas plays a vital role in that. The hard liners don't want to quit, and the doves might need them to stay in power, such as the kingmakers in Israel, and the Hamas-Fatah divide. Cynical, but undeniable.
And it's not like the peacemakers on both sides even see eye to eye. They might want peace, but the details of such an agreement are far from compromised, because many of their goals are mutually exclusive.
You dont belive that when we will sign a peace threaty we will fall to each other arms and become bff right off right?
Im sad to say this, but I cant trust them yet. And i dont say it blindly or because of racism. If i will walk to the wrong neigberhood in jerusalem i will clearly die.
And no, its not work the other way. Arabs live almost freely in Israel (yes they will be double checked in airports and i dont say there is none-racism) and can do whatever they want. They are not forced for anything, not to religion laws, not to coscript laws (theu dont go to the army for obvious reasons, unlike the beduians, the christian arabs and the druz), and we even "close our eyes" to the fact that mostly they build thier houses withoutbpremitions and dont pay taxes (its make the view better on some roads, to see the castles they build. There is one famous building on road 6, which colored in orange and sone shiny thing which sparkel. A must when you visit Israel.
I mean, when Israel idiot foreign affairs minister sugfested "opulation exchange" (which mean arab towns will be given to the palestinians authoriries in exchange for major settlments) The palestinians cryied and yelled. When Netanyaho said he donr want to force peoples out of theirnhome and may let settlers keep live in their homes but under palestinians authorities, theu cryied and yelled. So its quite double standards here.
I know Israel is not saint. Belive me or not, but when debating with Israelis im very self critic and have many things i dont agree with. I take a quire more "radical" stand here just to balance the heat you flame over Israel. So dont judge my character because of what i say.
But, as i began to say befor, the arabic population in the western bank, and in gaza, is filled with hate to jews. No, not just to Israel, but to jews in general. " the protocols of the elders of zion" are sold on book stores and Hitler used as a heroic character because he killes jews.
Now, you can say a lot about racism in Israel. But we dont Demonize the arabs. I mean, two rabbies were set to court for translating a text which "described the laws of war and when its ok to kill a non-jew". In the last election a party campigen was cancled because it "shown a population in an offending way". In the west bank and gaza this happen in every speech of an official.
So if we do make peace, what next? The leaders will say to their citizens "we were wrong, they are actualy cool"?
And even more, does Hamas will be in oeace with us as well? And hizbuhalla? And the people front of paestine? (Yes there is such a movment. But also for the Monty python joke).
And for last - mr. Macll, you do know that these "settlers"
(i usualy call them somethinf that translate to "setterorist", but you may get it wrong [no they dont kill anyone. And i mean none. Nada. Not a single death. The maximum they do is graffiti. And even imthen its mostly by these crazy messiahical "hill youth", which are kids runaways who with blind belif on god build caravens on hills and then get arrested and sent back home] )
Are not an agent of the govrenment or something? These are private peoples who roam the land and build ilegaly in these places? Most of them just because of the low cost (its far from the center)? You do know that there are Israeli organizations who report in such acts, and many plces like these are getting demolished? I donr want to say anything, but i didnt saw any Palestinian group who do anything the same.
For another topic - yea, i know the wall is not perfect. Yes ive been in some protests myself. Yet, the heck with it, in general, i dont fear anymore to drive the buss. And you know what? I prefer that some villages wont like ir, upon fear to get to public places. Without the wall every twrrorist could come inside Israel. What are the other options? Im sure you dont complaine about the border between USA and Mexico, and the mexican dont even try to harm you.
Just think for yourself : if these Poor peopels whohld blow themselves inresturant instead of trying to find a job? If you will need to guard your grandmother when she go shopping becaus ealone she may be attacked by some pissed off terrorist?
For last - I read some of the post this bloger posted. Its a nice prespective. Yet i dont agree with him on some topics. First off, the jewish community was always quite separetade from the rest population. If not by a own quarter, then by food, language, religios rules and so. They werent arabs. The jews of Yemens are more "yemens" then the arab yemens, as the jewish comunity married only inaide their comunitt while the arabs married forgien peopels and "mixed up" with the many arab comunities around the middle east+africa.
And for his saying that the Mizrahim were better to stay in the arabic nations - Im sure you understand whybits not. I respect the arabs so much for not harming the jews still living in arabic nation even when they are forced wirh such hating propoganda from thier leaders, yet the jewish comunities in these nation do live in total fear. And lets not mention that the return to Israel is a global dream of the jewish peoples, and the building of Israel was started even befor the 1948. (1890 in a matter of fact). And their lives werent worst then any other jewish who made an Aliya (In hebrew its called "to go up", "to get up to Israel", the act of moving from outside of Israel into Israel. And befor you say its say everyone ekse are inferior, its mean literaly to go up, as it was used in the bible to describe the march of moses and the Israelits from eygept to Israel).
One last question - What is the "trade" actualy? Israel will withdraw from some areas, we will accept a palesrinian country, we will do this and this and this, for....? What Israel actualt get in return?
You must be logged in to post a reply!