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John Winkler shot by police.

Posted Apr 12, '14 at 2:30pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

I'm not "forgiving" them either. From the available information I have, there's no outright reason to condemn them. As other details surface that may change. I'm neutral about it.


If this had been a group of legally armed civilians, you'd say "We need more regulation and restrictions so morons like these don't kill innocent people." Why the double-standard based on their profession?
 

Posted Apr 12, '14 at 2:53pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

If this had been a group of legally armed civilians, you'd say "We need more regulation and restrictions so morons like these don't kill innocent people." Why the double-standard based on their profession?


You may be right, but that's only because of some underlying assumptions I associate with a police officer and a civilian. Owning a gun for a civilian requires no training whatsoever. Police officers are trained to react in situations like this and it's their job to do so. While the judgement call in this scenario was wrong, a police officer is generally going to react better than a civilian in a hostile situation - they likely have more experience and training.

In other words, it's the difference between a professional and an amateur. I'm going to, on the surface, give the benefit of the doubt to the trained agent making a mistake, as opposed to a vigilante who has no legal authority to make those kinds of calls to begin with.
 

Posted Apr 12, '14 at 3:01pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

In other words, it's the difference between a professional and an amateur.

So the trained "professionals" are somewhat excused when they screw up because they have more experience? There is literally no job in which that makes sense. If an untrained group makes the same judgment call as the trained group, what does that say about the training?
 

Posted Apr 12, '14 at 3:20pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

So the trained "professionals" are somewhat excused when they screw up because they have more experience?


If you want to phrase it that way. The other way of looking at it is that the situation was so ambiguous that a trained and likely experienced person/persons (I don't know how many officers were present) felt there were sufficient reasons to shoot. No one is omniscient.

Honestly, I think Samiel hit this on the head from the start. If the police had a policy of using LTL weapons in uncertain situations, these accidental deaths wouldn't happen. There would still be people who were hit by LTL weapons who were innocent, but more likely than not, it wouldn't be fatal/permanent damage. No matter what, there will always be a few mistakes, especially when you introduce that many individuals into a bunch of different situations where tension and adrenaline and multiple unknowns are all confusing factors.

If an untrained group makes the same judgment call as the trained group, what does that say about the training?


If it was the same rate, then that would imply training is useless. This obviously isn't the case though. People aren't perfect. Training does help, but everyone can still make mistakes. Unfortunately, some mistakes have more serious consequences. As a whole though, a police officer is going to react better than any random schmo with a gun.
 
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