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Time's Fabrication, or the Argument Burrito Supreme

Posted Aug 6, '14 at 4:49pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,410 posts

Knight

In the OP, I pointed out that Lucy was incorrect.

I know. Still it seemed to affect you, what with the 10% of brain myth (which, as a fun fact, I heard the director of the movie himself call a myth during an interview just recently).

Like I said, I don't have all the answers. Merely a hypothesis, just so that we are all clear.

Doesn't excuse you from being inconsequent in your argumentation.

But it's ridiculous to think that just because our "time" follows a sequence of events based on cycles that were going long before our kind stepped out of the trees and shat in caves, that "time" (a measurement of numbers between day and night, the cycles of the moon, the seasons, becoming more and more complex as society advanced) exists.

I never said anything about cycles myself. Also you should use a different definition of time than the one in parantheses; the measurement of time certainly does exist, I can prove that by counting the units measured on my watch. A second does exist, a minute does exist, an hour does exist, etc.; because we defined them. A clock is a device calibrated to display the units with which we measure time. Your issue is that according to you, a clock is calibrated on an inexistent thing; I ask you, how is that even possible? You cannot measure nothing.
Just imagine for a moment this situation: on the small scales (atomic, subatomic or smaller), some processes (events) always happen with the exact same event interval, for physical reasons. Now you make a device that makes a tick every time such a rhythmic event occurs. If I'm not misled this is the basic principle of an atomic clock. This clock is not measuring nothing; it is measuring a perfectly rhymthic event, which we like to call time.

Now I will agree that there are some things about our mental visualisation of time that are flawed. Time is not a force, nor is it a dimension; it is the simple fact that events happen after each other. We cannot "move" through time because the past or the future does not exist, only the present. But time can still be affected by gravity, for example, because gravity can act on those small events, it distorts the interval between them by affecting the physical process in some way; it makes our hypothetical atomic clock near the black hole tick differently than our real atomic clocks here on Earth. Thus time is affected by gravity.

Of course, like you I don't have the answers to everything either, I'm not even a physicist. I am presenting my view of time, as you, but I have the audacity to claim that my argumentation in favour of the existence of something we can call time is sound.
 

Posted Aug 6, '14 at 5:05pm

FishPreferred

FishPreferred

1,688 posts

Well now that you tempt me with such an offer, I could argue that mass and distance never changes. If you cut off a piece of wood from a board, the mass or length does not change, it is merely displaced. But I don't want to quibble about that.


That's wholly irrelevant. Your reason to conclude that time does not exist applies equally to both of these. You should therefore arrive at both of these conclusions as well.

But it's ridiculous to think that just because our "time" follows a sequence of events based on cycles that were going long before our kind stepped out of the trees and shat in caves, that "time" (a measurement of numbers between day and night, the cycles of the moon, the seasons, becoming more and more complex as society advanced) exists.


You just defined time as a real measurement applied to real things. It cannot be this and nonexistant. You may as well argue that money doesn't exist, because "money" is just a word used to describe the numerical value associated with some real object or electronic database.

An observer along with it wouldn't measure a change in the function of the device.


The brain is a harmonic device.
 

Posted Aug 6, '14 at 8:16pm

Jagatai_Khan

Jagatai_Khan

313 posts

A clock is a device calibrated to display the units with which we measure time. Your issue is that according to you, a clock is calibrated on an inexistent thing; I ask you, how is that even possible?


How clocks work

That's wholly irrelevant

^

You just defined time as a real measurement applied to real things


Yes. I'm not saying cycles don't exist. I'm saying time doesn't exist. We measure cycles, not some fourth dimension.
 

Posted Aug 6, '14 at 9:17pm

FishPreferred

FishPreferred

1,688 posts

How clocks work


Wholly irrelevant, Batman! He isn't asking what the mechanism of a clock is. He wants to know how you justify your claim that clocks are measuring something which does not exist, and therefore measuring nothing.

Yes. I'm not saying cycles don't exist. I'm saying time doesn't exist. We measure cycles, not some fourth dimension.


Time is not necessarily a fourth dimension. When you define time as a measurement of events, you are saying that this is time. Whether you regard it as a dimension is irrelevant.
 

Posted Aug 7, '14 at 3:53pm

crazyape

crazyape

1,800 posts

Wholly irrelevant, Batman!


Lol, sorry for the confusion. For whatever reason in-game purchases don't work from this account so I switched.

He isn't asking what the mechanism of a clock is. He wants to know how you justify your claim that clocks are measuring something which does not exist, and therefore measuring nothing.


My mistake. In lieu of the next point, it's moot.

Time is not necessarily a fourth dimension. When you define time as a measurement of events, you are saying that this is time. Whether you regard it as a dimension is irrelevant.


You make an excellent point, and it would seem my whole argument falls apart when you put it like that. And to think it was gung ho about it for that long, too. I feel like a fool now.

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/698489-facepalm
 

Posted Sep 6, '14 at 7:35am

Kennethhartanto

Kennethhartanto

248 posts

Could a passage of events be fabricated? i don't think so, and the same with time; since in my opinion both of them are literally the same. saying time is fabricated is the same as telling this universe does not in fact exist, since that would meant that Big bang is fabricated

 
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