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gphpgl
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gphpgl
14 posts
Nomad

As a long time MMO player, I've seen developers come and go. The current market is nothing more than a Smash and Grab Robbery. They come out with a new game, give it a founders pack with early access to get you hooked then make a **** game.
The worst is when you have a sub game that has long subscription options 6-12 months or more, then the game goes free to play.
Now its even worse with the new crime… Crowd funding. What a joke. Hey give me your money and in a few years when we go live you can play it. Sad part is, there are 1000's of people willing to pay for the chance of taking part in a game they have very limited knowledge of.
In the current market its been proven that you don't have to make a good game to get paid. There are numerous examples out there.
What happened to Developers who are in it to make a solid game along with making money.

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RockLou
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RockLou
29 posts
Nomad

As a game dev I can say I make games cuz it's fun. I don't even include ads in them, I don't do it for money.
But that's me, and I don't think most devs have the same mentality.

FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

As a long time MMO player, [...]
Well, that's your problem, right there. Unless it's minimalist or text-based, starting up a proper MMO requires a huge quantity of programming hours, a fleet of servers, and enough bandwidth to accommodate the "massive" load from at least 1/3 of all the players playing at once. These MMOs are going to be costly, and the devs (or rather, their marketing team) make up for this with all the classic gimmicks; special features for paid membership, special features for pre-orders, purchaseable expansions, purchaseable add-ons, temporary free-to-play access, and all the rest.

The worst is when you have a sub game that has long subscription options 6-12 months or more, then the game goes free to play.
Of course it does. Restricting access to pre-order subscribers defeats the whole purpose of the MMO, and there's no better way to gain subscribers than offering a free-to-play version.

Now its even worse with the new crime… Crowd funding. What a joke. Hey give me your money and in a few years when we go live you can play it. Sad part is, there are 1000's of people willing to pay for the chance of taking part in a game they have very limited knowledge of.
1 You just said the last thing was "the worst". One of these has to be hyperbole.
2 Yes, and if you hold on to your money, you won't be one of those "1000's [sic.] of people". Unless they receive tremendous game-changing benefits for their contributions, the fact that there are people either more gullible or more imprudent with their money than you are could only be a definite bonus to you. I don't see what you have to complain about.

In the current market its been proven that you don't have to make a good game to get paid. There are numerous examples out there.
Egad! Are you suggesting that there are actually people who deliberately deceive the public in order to make money? Sir, I am flabbergasted! So profound is this revelation, I am at a loss for words.

It's clear to me that your expectations are exceedingly unrealistic. Certainly there are worthless MMOs and cash-grab phoney ones. Usually these are the ones that have little or no steady players and demand billing information more or less up front. There are also failed MMOs that, through incompetent programming, poor marketing, or lack of funds, have to be shut down shortly after release. There are also very well made MMOs that, despite all their gimmicks and self-promotion, continue to thrive with-or-without contribution from the majority of players. My advice to you is don't pay a cent until you know what you're getting into, manage all your spending thereafter, never give them any credit information at all, and never pay for a subcription with a definite time span. I've spent a total of $45 on two MMOs and nothing besides time on any other. I consider those $45 well spent for five years of almost-full access. Since one of them has dropped the monthly fee for full membership, I may even pay a bit more if so inclined. Yes, it's as simple as that.
FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

The OP is not referring to a &quotroper MMO." He's referring to a copy-paste MMO with all the same elements, graphics and objectives as existing MMOs. That cuts down on the work and creativity by essentially reskinning a game and cashing in on it.
In the first paragraph, it is asserted that the entire market consists solely of cash-grabs. If he wants to say this about copy-paste MMOs only, he should state that he is referring specifically to those, rather than generalizing every MMO in existence.

He isn't complaining about his personal finances. He is complaining that something like this actually exists, and that those other people are making poor decisions that they would not have to make in the first place if such a thing did not exist.
So, in what way are the developers to be held accountable for the poor decisions made by consumers because of something essentially out of the developer's control? I'm not suggesting that they should be free of their obligation to provide whatever they promised, mind you, but bankruptcy does happen.

the fault is also that crowd funding is unreliable.
You'll have no argument there, but the OP is accusing the devs' character of flaws; not the funding process.

I find nothing unrealistic about wanting game developers to make games because they want people to have fun and not just give them money.
To want something is not to expect it. It's quite reasonable to want businesses to provide high-quality products and services at reasonable prices. To assume that they can and must do so is... naïve at best.
FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

Assuming he was referring only to copy-paste MMOs (which he might have been), can we agree that the gimmicks are a problem?
Yes.

In the world of game development, I don't see this as a naive assumption. If you are developing a game, there is no reason why you shouldn't create a high-quality product, though this varies by genre and design (for example, if it's an 8-bit shooter, I expect the dev to use 8-bit graphics rather than 1080p). In this case, "want" is replaced by "expect:" if you are going to make a game, you should be expected to do the absolute best you can do, which means high-quality services at a fair price.
Expecting that from the entire market is an exceedingly unrealistic expectation. Even the dental hygene industry is cluttered with overhyped gadgets and knock-offs, so why expect differently of MMOs? As long as people will buy indiscriminately, there will be other people selling them a ton of crap.

Doing a hack job for a lower price, or a copy-paste game for free with in-game purchases, should be consider unacceptable.
Ideally, yes, but unless there's a definitive measure of what makes a game hackneyed or copy-paste (rather than just poorly executed or derivative) that doesn't really count for much.
FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

If gamers adopted the expectation I layed out, imagine how much cleaner the industry as a whole would be. It would if nothing else take care of the problem the OP is addressing.
I think we may be referring to different kinds of "expectation". If gamers presuppose MMOs in general to be diligently crafted by sincere developers using their own original ideas, there's a good chance that many of them will be sorely disappointed. If they demand this level of quality, there isn't.

My assessment of gphpgl's complaint is that he presupposed this of the wrong MMOs and was taken in. Hence my financial advice.

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