ForumsWEPRWhat is Communism?

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Parsat
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Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

Communism is simply a terrible ideology, but it is often misunderstood, especially on an Internet where all sorts of falsehoods run wild. I will attempt to explain what Communism is as well as its history as best as I can. I suppose I have an agenda behind this, because my family lived in Beijing at the height of Mao's power.

Let's look into the idea of Marxism first. Marx was not part of the proletariat, or working class. He was a member of the middle class who looked at the plight of the working class and saw the terrible working circumstances that they lived in. So you could say that communism began with a genuine interest in helping these people. Marx decided in a couple of rules that became the main ideas of Communism.

1. History is a series of class conflict. Marx found inspiration in the ideas of Hegel, who said that new ideas will clash with the status quo until a synthesis of the ideas results. To put this in an analogy, the Romans used to worship a variety of Pagan Gods. When Christianity came along, there was a brief struggle of ideas that resulted in a new Christianity becoming the main belief, a Christianity with additional motivations of materialism and with new beliefs and rituals, such as the date of December 25 for Christmas. In the same way, Marx applied the idea of idea conflict and substituted classes. He argued that history chronicled the exploitation and the alienation of the working classes by the "upper class."
2. The ultimate triumph of the working class. Marx believed, however, that eventually, the working class would wake from its oppression, band together, and overthrow the bourgeoisie (middle and upper classes), using their past experience of being exploited to avoid exploiting others. This communist utopia would result in the collective ownership of everything by everyone. Unfortunately, this point has numerous shortcomings. For one, Marx expected developed nations like Britain and France to adopt Communism first, rather than the poorly-developed Russians. The exact opposite happened. Moreover, the working class still has not found unity. Even to this day, we categorize the working class by their occupation: plumber, mechanic, laborer, etc., and even the working class still uses this categorizing scheme. When people say that "If humans were perfect, Communism would succeed," they mean that if the proletariat leading the revolution were perfect, then communism would happen. However, if the people were really perfect, would they really be prompted to rise against the bourgeoisie instead of working industriously? Instead, throughout history, we have seen that the few who set themselves to lead their fellow proletariat were corrupted by the power they received, using it to gain and consolidate more and more power.
3. Ideology. Marx mentioned ideology several times without actually defining it. According to his confidant Engels, ideology is the rules that the dominant-class-ruled society sets to confuse the subjugated class. In other words, in the case of capitalism, it was argued that the upper class used capitalism to confuse the working class into having private property. The upper class would have the agenda of keeping the working class working for them. Ideology is extremely important to any Communist country. To the Communists, the idea of fostering a perfect ideology was extremely important to them, and that is exactly why there is so much propaganda and censorship in Communist countries.
4. Labor Theory of Value and the evil of capitalism. Marx looked at how hard the working class worked and sympathized with him. What this theory means is that the only thing that should determine the cost of a commodity is the amount of time and effort it takes to make it. Marx did acknowledge, however, that different objects had a use value (the direct use of it) and an exchange value (the market price). For example, the use value of firewood is that you can burn it and it keeps you warm, while the exchange value goes back to the basics of the Labor Theory of Value. Marx argued that capitalism was stiffing the working class; that capitalism wasn't giving workers their fair share of the money. He called the gap between what they should earn and what they actually earned the "surplus value." He also argued that capitalism destroyed social relationships over more objective relationships; in other words, people were becoming overconcerned about the market price of a good instead of how much work it actually took to make it. He called his "Commodity Fetishism." There are some glaring problems with this. Economists both in his time and in more recent times have shown that there are many other factors to the price of a good, including the prices of its raw materials, the skill required to make the good, and all other costs (the electricity to run a factory, for instance). Marx's absolute claim that the only source of profit is the exploitation of workers has seen much criticism as well.

  • 89 Replies
Parsat
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Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

World War I did not take place in China, or in Cuba, or in Vietnam.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

The point I'm trying to make is that it took place in countries where living conditions were horrible.

Parsat
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Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

Yes it did, completely opposite to what Marx expected. As it turned out, he had not reckoned the power of the countryside.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Yes it did, completely opposite to what Marx expected. As it turned out, he had not reckoned the power of the countryside.


Well no. He didn't think it would take place in places where life was wonderful...

He would just except that it was in an industrialized nation.
Parsat
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Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

Life was most assuredly not wonderful in backwards Tsarist Russia, unless you were a noble living before the Russian Revolutions.

panny
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panny
8 posts
Nomad

Communism, as described by Marx, is a great theory. But the totalitarian regime destroyed my country (Romania, democratic since 1989), so in practice communism (Soviet ''version'' is not such a great ideea.

tempo013
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tempo013
581 posts
Nomad

in a communist country, doesn't the gov't choose each individuals identity? i remember reading that the gov't chooses every citizens proffesion, they get to choose who becomes educated, and the gov't gets paid for your work and then pays the worker a stipend.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

in a communist country, doesn't the gov't choose each individuals identity? i remember reading that the gov't chooses every citizens proffesion, they get to choose who becomes educated, and the gov't gets paid for your work and then pays the worker a stipend.


The term 'communist country' doesn't make sense since communism is defined as stateless.

And thats not quite true of the socialist states such as USSR. They didn't choose your profession (And they have no reason to), education was free for everyone, and yes, the government takes part of your labor (Duh).

Even if this was true, there is no real communist who approves of such authority.
Parsat
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Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

I agree that the term "communist country" is theoretically false. In fact, this is really a colloquialism, "Republic" is invariably used by the Socialists to describe their state.

No, the Communists don't choose your profession, although they could certainly force you into labor camps or force you from engaging in lines of work considered "anti-revolutionary."

Communist
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Communist
522 posts
Nomad

I agree with most of Parsat's points.

However I beleive if there was an American-communist heading the country, there would be a true form of Marxism. In the U.S constitution it states that there is liberty and justice for all not just for a small elite that can afford really good lawyers. it all states that all men are created equal, yet the pompus upper class tend to ignore the lower class and treat them like dogs.

In fact have you ever wondered why we are the most anti-communist state in the world? because Stalin was threatening the safety of the United States with his agressiveness during post WW2. Not because we thought communism was a "failed system".

Also, if there was a communist state being backed by the United states ( like that will ever happen ), think about it, what are the chances that the United states would let that country turn into a totalitarian state? The reason why communism has fallen apart is because it is a fragile as democracy is. it must be headed and supported by the right people with the right ideals or everything Parsat mentioned will in fact come true in every other scenerio for communism, or what it would be deformed to look like.

samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Comunism is a horrible idea, take America for example inact a comunist poilicy, we'd have millions of McDonalds workers, and no doctors of teachers, the majority of American's want the easy way out.

Communist
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Communist
522 posts
Nomad

Not everybody wants to work at Mcdonals samy, you could always only make it legal for teens to work there, or a limited number of uneducated adults, but that is a different story.

Why do teachers even teach? they can't possibly do it for the money unless they have a really poor life and they are in turn bad teachers.

woody_7007
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woody_7007
2,662 posts
Peasant



Here is a link to Marx's communist manifesto.

If you really want to know about the original ideas and predictions behind communism then i suggest you read it. Its not even particularly long.

samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Why do teachers even teach? they can't possibly do it for the money unless they have a really poor life and they are in turn bad teachers.


Teachers have a pretty nice salary :P that crapy pay is only in the few extremely poor cities in America. Also I'm big on limited Government interference in things esp. the economy, so your first suggestion is horrible, atleast in my opinion. I can't speak for everyone else but you know.
Communist
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Communist
522 posts
Nomad

Accept for the fact that most citys in america pay less than other jobs that they could easily do. Teaching isn;t really a ticket to an awesome life. They do get enough, but most of my teachers have spouses that work other jobs too. I'm extremly doubtfu that the people who make the best teachers do it for the money. Rather communist like don't you think? :P

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