I've seen this come up in several threads that involve religion. Usually, an atheist says something like, "I thought Christians were all about tolerating other beliefs." In the US, approximately 80% of the people say they are Christians. Why was there a law passed that forbids praying in public schools? Why can't atheists be a little more tolerant? Of course, it isn't ALL the atheist's fault...the Christians didn't do anything about it when voting time came...but the point is that atheists have no tolerance for theists. The US began as a country with only Christians, but no Catholics. The Christians there wouldn't allow any other religion into the country. Gradually, they became more tolerant and allowed other denominations of Christians in...including Catholics. After a while, the tolerance expanded to everyone that believed in any god. At this point, everyone was still tolerant of each other because they had something in common. When the tolerance included atheists, though, everything collapsed for the Christians. Atheists are offended by people praying in public for some reason. The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The rest is about freedom of speech, press, and non-related stuff. What I am trying to say here is that when praying in public schools was prohibited, this Amendment was violated. Basically, in the US, it is "illegal" (I don't have any better words at the moment) to make laws against the public exercise of religious activities. Did you know that religious tolerance started in America? The Christians who started the country up "invented" tolerance. n other countries, there were "official" religions. The US people were sick of that, so they invented tolerance. When atheists barged into the country (no offense meant), they were offended and tried, and continue to try, to change the country according to their expectations. That would be like a Christian going to Saudi Arabia and expecting everyone to stop praying to Allah six times a day because it is annoying. Seriously, it is getting ridiculous. Back to the question...what happened to tolerance? Why are atheists blaming Christians for the lack of tolerance in this country? The question for the Christians is...why aren't you doing anything about it?
I do know what "Christianity" means. Read the first paragraph. Apparently, you are the one who doesn't know...
I know quite well. If you break down the word, a Christian is a follower of Christ. Therefore, Catholics are Christian because they follow Christ. -------------
What were the apostles? They were not Catholics in the way Catholics were and now are. Yes, Peter probably started the Catholic church. At that time, it was a form of Christianity, but now, it is...corrupted. Back on topic,now, please.
I can't argue a point that I agree with. The Catholic church is corrupted, but its still a Christian religion, and deserves the respect that Protestantism deserves. ------------
[quote] I don't know if you knew this, but the word "Christian" means "Christ like." Did Christ pray to his mother? NO! Did He pray to Peter? NO! He only prayed to God the Father. Catholics don't really try to do that...yes, I do some bad things like being judgmental, but at least I try not to. Catholics don't even try to pray only to God.
God was the only one who was not in physical form on earth in Jesus' time. You don't pray to someone who is right in front of you. And in case you didn't read what I said before, we're not worshipping them like gods, but asking for a blessing from them. And you don't seem to be trying very hard right now. [/quote]
BigP did a pretty good job of refuting your point there. ------------- I have noticed that there isn't as much tolerance as there should be. I think that being politically correct is a good thing if you do it right. Instead of letting no religion practice in public, let all of them. Everyone would be happy then, if they're tolerant enough. ---------- I think it's someone ironic that someone who says that there isn't enough tolerance of Christianity can't tolerate Catholicism at an acceptable level. It deserve3s the respect of Protestantism, no? It reads YOUR Bible. It worships YOUR God. So what if there are a few differences in your beliefs? The intolerance isn't just with atheists these days.
You don't. The priest isn't the person who gives blessings. God does it. If the priest is what I think he is, he asks God to give you a blessing.
Whether you agree or disagree with a certain prayer service doesn't give you the right to judge an entire religion, just as I would never judge any other Christian religion.
Give a summary of a typical Catholic service...I've never actually been in one.
Just because somebody wasn't tolerant before, doesn't mean it's right for you to be intolerant now.
Who's being intolerant? I said nothing in my first post or any post in this thread that says atheists should shut up and become Christians.
And the same applies for those who do wish to pray; they may do it on their own time, rather cut into class time which could be spent better educating the youth of American. Prayer is most often a silent activity, anyways. I see no reason why a student can't do it when they've finished their class work, at lunchtime, or any of the numerous opportunities which they are probably not busy throughout the day.
You pray for different things in different occasions. If you are about to take an exam, you don't pray for a blessing on the food. Just before class, you would pray for...whatever it is you pray for just before class. I've never actually seen it done, so I don't know what would be prayed for. I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say here...
I know quite well. If you break down the word, a Christian is a follower of Christ. Therefore, Catholics are Christian because they follow Christ.
Even if the word means what you say it means, I don't agree on the "follow Christ" part...give your definition of "following Christ" and, if it is the same as mine, I'll show you what I mean.
I have noticed that there isn't as much tolerance as there should be. I think that being politically correct is a good thing if you do it right. Instead of letting no religion practice in public, let all of them. Everyone would be happy then, if they're tolerant enough.
It worked before the atheists arrived...like I said, the whole thing collapsed when atheists began to be offended by public exercise of religion.
I think it's someone ironic that someone who says that there isn't enough tolerance of Christianity can't tolerate Catholicism at an acceptable level. It deserve3s the respect of Protestantism, no? It reads YOUR Bible. It worships YOUR God. So what if there are a few differences in your beliefs? The intolerance isn't just with atheists these days.
I'm not arguing with Catholicism because I'm not tolerant. I'm pointing out that many of the "intolerant Christian acts" that people talk about were Catholic actions. Everyone talks as if the protestants are just as much to blame as the Catholics for those events. Unfortunately, every time I try to make a point that Protestants had nothing to do with those things, it turns into a debate between Catholics and other Christians.
I don't know about you guys, but I think "freedom from religion" is a bunch of BS.
Oh, and to the person who started the thread, why'd you have to cheap-shot Catholicism?? This could be a nice atheist/religious discussion, and you've made it a Catholicism vs. Rest of Christianity argument.
Jewish people believe in God, but not in Jesus.
Christians believe in God and Jesus ("believe in" meaning believing that they're holy)
Just agree that catholics are part of christianity and get this thread back on topic...
I don't know about you guys, but I think "freedom from religion" is a bunch of BS.
Freedom from religion?
Oh, and to the person who started the thread, why'd you have to cheap-shot Catholicism?? This could be a nice atheist/religious discussion, and you've made it a Catholicism vs. Rest of Christianity argument.
Someone else made it necessary to distinguish Catholics from the other Christians :P
Jewish people believe in God, but not in Jesus.
Ever noticed that Jews are always called "Jews" and not "Christians?"
Just agree that catholics are part of christianity and get this thread back on topic...
Ok...so Catholics are Christians, but they are still extremely different from other Christians. I don't consider them as "Christians," but they are, technically, Christians
Basically what all the political crazies use to justify the kind of intolerance this thread is about. Spin on "freedom of religion."
My point with the Jewish things was to show that the main distinguisher is the belief in the holiness of Jesus.
Someone else made it necessary to distinguish Catholics from the other Christians :P
I don't want to start this again, but I thought protestants were called that because they didn't like the way it was (hence, protestant) and they branched off from the catholics. That's what I heard, anyway.
Ok...so Catholics are Christians, but they are still extremely different from other Christians. I don't consider them as "Christians," but they are, technically, Christians
Why was there a law passed that forbids praying in public schools? Why can't atheists be a little more tolerant?
You're assuming Atheists are the only source of this. Think about how many religions there are. If only one is represented, that's going to create problems with the others that are there as well. As for being tolerant...I'm not going to lie, if there was prayer in public schools I'd walk out. I still refuse to say Under God In the pledge of allegiance, not because I'm "Unpatriotic" or "AntiAmerican", but because I find that offensive. I don't believe in god, so why should I be forced to say something like that? Still, if you think about the number of religions that are represented in America today, you can't have something that will work for some but might offend others. Its better to simply have nothing then to try and please all different forms of religion.
I still refuse to say Under God In the pledge of allegiance, not because I'm "Unpatriotic" or "AntiAmerican", but because I find that offensive. I don't believe in god, so why should I be forced to say something like that?
I wouldn't call you unpatriotic. The unpatriotics are people who refuse to pledge at all...however, what is so offensive about including a line to reflect our religious heritage? You can freely refuse to say it, but please don't be offended by it...
Still, if you think about the number of religions that are represented in America today, you can't have something that will work for some but might offend others. Its better to simply have nothing then to try and please all different forms of religion.
I don't know about you, but I think that if I see some members of the class doing something from a religion I don't belong to, I wouldn't take any offense...I wouldn't join in, but I wouldn't be offended. I think it's just atheists that are offended by christians, and because of it they assume that we offend the other religions as well.
I wouldn't call you unpatriotic. The unpatriotics are people who refuse to pledge at all...however, what is so offensive about including a line to reflect our religious heritage? You can freely refuse to say it, but please don't be offended by it...
So many negative things have come from religion that I don't see many positive aspects to humanity's religious heritage. I'm not offended by others saying it, I'm offended that people have tried to force me to say it. I have no problem with others saying it if they believe in it, but it shouldn't be mandatory like they make it in many schools to completely say the pledge of allegiance.
I don't know about you, but I think that if I see some members of the class doing something from a religion I don't belong to, I wouldn't take any offense...I wouldn't join in, but I wouldn't be offended. I think it's just atheists that are offended by christians, and because of it they assume that we offend the other religions as well.
True, problem is that some would take offense. Think about how since the September 11th attacks Muslims have been feared, even hated, by some people. Religion has so many tensions between each form, even within the same general form, that its likely to create tensions between students, possibly even worse. Its safer for everyone if Religion doesn't play a role in a learning environment.
So many negative things have come from religion that I don't see many positive aspects to humanity's religious heritage.
Well, there's Christmas...
But seriously, I agree with what the orginal poster said, about how things seemed to go bad when the atheists showed up...
True, problem is that some would take offense.
Well, I say if they're going to take offense at something ridiculous like this, then we should just ignore them. And the anti-muslimism is a sad thing, but I don't see how that affects the argument
But seriously, I agree with what the orginal poster said, about how things seemed to go bad when the atheists showed up...
You can find connections anywhere if you look for them. I could say Christianity caused the economic crisis because they spent time in church and not out being consumers. Ridiculous, I know, but that's the point. Things like that started the Holocaust....
Well, I say if they're going to take offense at something ridiculous like this, then we should just ignore them. And the anti-muslimism is a sad thing, but I don't see how that affects the argument
My point is that there isn't much tolerance between religions to begin with, its not just Atheists. If we had prayer time, what do you think would happen to those who don't pray, or pray in a different way? There is already so many problems and things dividing students in schools, its better not to make yet another one.
Even if the word means what you say it means, I don't agree on the "follow Christ" part...give your definition of "following Christ" and, if it is the same as mine, I'll show you what I mean.
Worshiping Christ, thinking he is God the Son, stuff like that. . .the word 'Christianty' ius basically 'Jesus'was-God-ism.' -------- Why? They believe in Jesus. They believe in the Bible. Therefore, they are Christian. Besides, Protestantism is just that-a protest. Saying that Catholicism isn't Christianity is basically saying that Protestanmtism hijacked Catholicism and it's definitioon. It's short-sighted and unfair. Anmyway, I think we've come to an agreement on that now -----------
But seriously, I agree with what the orginal poster said, about how things seemed to go bad when the atheists showed up...
It just seems that people were all fine and happy, with good moral values, before people started trying to erase all traces of religion for American Culture and Government.
It just seems that people were all fine and happy, with good moral values, before people started trying to erase all traces of religion for American Culture and Government.
Umm...Good moral values? The Salem Witch Trials? Ever read The Scarlet Letter? The Puritanism that dominated early American culture was hardly fool of "Good moral values."
Just because the history books don't detail every religious argument that ever took place doesn't mean that they weren't going on.
It just seems that people were all fine and happy, with good moral values, before people started trying to erase all traces of religion for American Culture and Government.
We started doing that when the US was founded in the 1700s. So. . .when did we have a ton of religion in American culture and government if we never intentionally had any in American culture and government?
