As there are plenty of topics about the generalized debate over evolution vs. creationism, I really would much rather this one stay very specific and about the topic of theistic evolution.
That is, the idea that creationism and evolution may be blended together seamlessly - depending on the religion in question, it may be in different ways. My knowledge pertains solely to the perspective of the Christian religion, but I'll abstain from entering this discussion until some people give their opinions. If you want to bring in other religions or even a deist point of view, feel free.
I think this is fairly different enough for a new topic, but if a mod sees otherwise, feel free to close it. ;-)
Anyway, my question is simple: can evolution and creationism as commonly defined actually work together in a logical, cohesive way?
Anyways, yes and no... In Genesis, it speaks of days and nights. I personally don't understand why it would be speaking of time periods if it mentioned that... Now I will concede that, "Let there be light," sounds an awful lot like the big bang, but I believe there is significant evidence otherwise...
For the record, I once believed that the only way to blend science and religion was to use the Old Earth creation theory, but I no longer believe so...
There is indeed evidence otherwise and suggestive of a young earth. It is late and I don't want to give another wall of text to the forums so not now...
Good to see somebody phrase the question in this specific manner. My brief answer would be "yes" though not necessarily in a "logical" manner so much as cohesive.
One may have to consider both whether evolutionism is compatible with theism and vice-versa.
i think one of the problems you run into with that is that some creationists dont really go along with evolution.. but rather adaptation which i suppose is a mild form of evolution..
i suppose you could say that God created everything and stuff evolved past point A to point B.. i guess that would be what you are saying.
No, I'm actually an atheist, but I am a former Christian...was at different points a Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, and Catholic. I was diverse. ;-)
There is indeed evidence otherwise and suggestive of a young earth. It is late and I don't want to give another wall of text to the forums so not now...
I agree, I would like to see evidence. I understand it being late, though. Whenever you get the chance.
i suppose you could say that God created everything and stuff evolved past point A to point B.. i guess that would be what you are saying.
Yes, that's one of the possibilities that some believe.
Good to see somebody phrase the question in this specific manner. My brief answer would be "yes" though not necessarily in a "logical" manner so much as cohesive.
I'm in agreement with you here, in a general sense. If someone brings a specific religion into the picture, it may be different, but I see no reason why a concept of a deity and the concept of evolution should be mutually exclusive.
Oy... maybe I'll be able to only say a little bit and not give the forums another WoT...
Oh well.. here goes...
There are some serious gaps in evolution that could never occur IMO without divine intervention.. I won't discuss these because this isn't Athe vs Theo...
There is evidence all the same for a young earth... Many pieces of evidence for evo can be interpreted to support a YE policy as well... If you want more information than I can fit here, go to: http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/daily-articles
Not all the articles are terribly well backed as most are just with the intent of preventing people from leaving the faith. Unfortunately, they do very little to encourage those outside to join...
I believe that one fundamental problem with the church today is that it attempts to shrug off scientific evidence and says things like, "The primordial soup, do you really think you came from a soup?" to prevent people from investigating and leaving. Churches are just now starting to keep people in the loop about the world outside because there is finally mounting evidence that supports the YE theory. It seems almost as if they were using ignorance to control people... I doubt that was their intention; perhaps they were ignorant themselves, but it does seem conspiracy like...
Ultimately, I believe that the difference between YE, Initiated Evolution, and Atheism is belief. I have two reasons that would have convinced me by themselves but combined with everything else, it was incontrovertible. I will not however, mention what they were. There is one person that knows about the first reason and only I know the second. I intend to keep it this way unless I have an extremely good reason to do otherwise.
Well I do believe in Creationism, but the Evolution Part I belive is that things do evolve, but it does not to about 100 million for a Tadpole to grow a pair of legs than end up on land. It was the order God had put it in that certain order. In the movie "Explelled" The top Evolutionism Professors can't answer the ultimate question. If Creationism isn't real then how did the Organisms come to be? Well in the Movie, the Proffesors said many different Theorys But none with Clear Answers.
I have yet to see that movie, but I certainly do want to...
Also, I believe in micro evolution (its called adaptation) and if you gave things the time, they would macro evolve, but I don't see the creation of new appendages or organs happening any time soon. I can see grass turning into corn or wolves becoming dogs because they are so closely related (and we caused both) genetically.
I honestly believe it comes down to how much evidence is there to support a YE versus an OE...
I already have a collection of DVD's/magazines supporting creation and could probably recite 9/10 of the shows on the history/discovery channels that support evo...
I must agree with you. I do support micro evolution because it is completely logical to me, as you said...
I can see grass turning into corn or wolves becoming dogs because they are so closely related
I honestly believe it comes down to how much evidence is there to support a YE versus an OE...
Well, I am an old earth believer, and I do believe in theistic evolution because as I have thought about evolution and the human body and god it only becomes more clear to me that God has planned for this to happen. I mean, how do you believe something with such complexity, amazingness, such perfectness as the human body could have come from a primordial soup, or from a common ancester, or from bacteria from the bottom of the ocean. It seems like this could only happen if a divine being such as God could have made it happen. Now the bible doesn't says that the old earth theory is true but it is the FAITH that God has planned out our fate and Jesus' second coming. And I would think that He figured out that we would figure it out by ourselfs since he made up.
There is evidence all the same for a young earth... Many pieces of evidence for evo can be interpreted to support a YE policy as well... If you want more information than I can fit here, go to: http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answer
Not all the articles are terribly well backed as most are just with the intent of preventing people from leaving the faith.
Well, you kinda just pointed out the issue there. You've linked to a site which, by your own admission, isn't particularly credible.
What I am wary of here is the relatively modern branch of apologetics that seeks to dismiss OE theories by saying they are insufficient. Without wall-of-texting anybody here, I daresay every one of the arguments from that corner tends to clutch at straws to support a political agenda moreso than focus on 'finding truth'.
I can't remember whether it was Carlie or Moe who believed that radiological carbon-dating was sufficient proof of OE.
