North Korea has imprisoned two American reporters. Many belive that the N. Korean goverment is going to use them to keep the US from doing things such as searching their boats. (if the United States does somethig they don't like they can torture the prisoners and we stop). However, they were illegally. What should be their fate?
Well, North Korea has it well within their rights to incarcerate them. I remember quite some time ago the story of some dumb kid from the U.S.A. went to singapore & was charged with theft & vandalism - spray paint, specifically. The U.S. government asked for leiniency on his behalf, and the sentence was reduced from six strokes with a cane to four. I remember how some people were outraged by it, but I thought it was entirely appropriate. If you go travelling, you should be paying attention to the law of the land you're in, or you may find yourself in very deep trouble.
Now, as for what North Korea is going to do with them... They might let them go. This would help N.K. curry favour with other nations, perhaps; or as you say, use them as a tool to try and manipulate other countries (which isn't going to work in my opinion), or just leave them in jail like any other prisoner. It's hard to say.
Well, North Korea has it well within their rights to incarcerate them.
The problem is that there is strong evidence to indicate that the reporters were near the border, but on the Chinese side. NK soldiers may have crossed the border to capture these ladies.
Either way, this is just leverage for NK. They are so desperately poor. They develop nuclear weapons then threaten the world. The past two US Presidents have signed agreements with the NK government in which NK promises to stop developing weapons in return for aid. But they have broken these agreements everytime. By imprisoning these reporters, they have more leverage to negotiate.
This will also give China some power. Since China has a bit of control over NK, China might make some demands to the US in exchange for suggesting to NK to release the reporters. It's all just a power game in the end.
Why were they imprisoned? Who are they? And if north Korea tortured wouldnt have be against international law?
Anyway, it depends on why they were imprisoned. If it was a big reason they might end up spending ALOT of time in jail. But if its unfair or something, like a freedom on speech thing or something, we prully will try hard to get them out.
The problem is that there is strong evidence to indicate that the reporters were near the border, but on the Chinese side.
I'm sure North Korea will disagree.
This will also give China some power. Since China has a bit of control over NK, China might make some demands to the US in exchange for suggesting to NK to release the reporters.
I don't think China has any further interest in being buddy-buddy with N.K. It doesn't win them any friends, and I doubt China is interested in sabotaging its own interests to help the North Koreans.
Of course NK will disagree. They are the most totalitarian, oppressive, secretive society in the history of the world. They will disagree with anything that makes them look bad.
I don't think China has any further interest in being buddy-buddy with N.K. It doesn't win them any friends, and I doubt China is interested in sabotaging its own interests to help the North Koreans.
I know. China hates NK. But China can use them as a bargaining chip against the US.
Secretive? Maybe. Most totalitarian & oppressive? Ehh... I dunno about that.
But China can use them as a bargaining chip against the US.
I don't think China wants to use bargaining chips against the U.S.A. The moment they start doing that, they could potentially risk their friendship with one of their biggest economic partners.
And if north Korea tortured wouldnt have be against international law?
Yes, it's against International law, but what makes you think it could stop North Korea, they'd just try to chew thier way out of it again, and again. And with what happend and G-Bay, they'd just try to push it all on the US and how they torured prisoners.
You need to do some research on human rights and government of NK.
So it's more totalitarian & oppressive then Nazi Germany? Or Stalin's Soviet Union? Nazi Germany rounded up people into camps, gassed them & then burned the bodies in huge mass graves. Maybe you need to spend more time with history books.
Well really it does depend. Did the reporters do anything against N. Korean law? Because if so, they are well within their rights to imprison them. If not...there's not much we can do because the North Korean law enforcement handles North Korean prisoners. I suppose the U.S. could speak to them. It's possible they want them for leverage, yes.
So it's more totalitarian & oppressive then Nazi Germany? Or Stalin's Soviet Union? Nazi Germany rounded up people into camps, gassed them & then burned the bodies in huge mass graves. Maybe you need to spend more time with history books.
I would say NK is on par with Nazi Germany and Stalinism. They do round up people and do human experimentation on them. The state caused a famine that killed nearly 2 million people and they refused to accept any aid.
I would say NK is on par with Nazi Germany and Stalinism. They do round up people and do human experimentation on them. The state caused a famine that killed nearly 2 million people and they refused to accept any aid.
I would say that statement is incorrect.
Citing Robert Conquest's "The Great Terror: A Reassessment" If we count deaths we can attribute to Stalin for famine, executions, gulags; the count of dead because of Stalin's control of Russia hits the 20 million mark. Other estimates are more generous; and hit around the 30-40 million mark; but I chose Conquest's revision to give Stalin the.. benefit of the doubt.
Then of course turning to the Nazis, we have 6 million jews dead in holocaust, 6 million 'others' dead in the holocaust camps. That in itself makes it far more oppressive then North Korea. Okay, sure.. people die in NK because of a famine. They're spending their resources & money on R&D and not on properly providing for their own people. The Nazis, on the other hand, were spending money and resources to round people up and execute them in a fashion and number that's almost inconceivable.
Let us not forget the war itself; after all, if Hitler had not been interested in dominating all of Europe with his regime, we wouldn't have all of those casualties to chalk up. So that means 25 million military personnel dead on all sides, with an estimated 42 million civilians dead all on sides.
If Kim Jong-il runs a worse totalitarian/oppressive regime then either of those two, I'll eat my boots.
Now. That said - I can see... maybe where you're coming from. He is very oppressive, and runs a tight shop.. on principle. However, on paper, in terms of the damage that has been caused as a result of those regimes, and the sheer number of those wounded by the oppression, Kim Jong-il is a rank amateur compared to the likes of Stalin and Hitler.
I'd just like to say that the extent of Il's 'evilness' if you like is not yet clear as we outsiders do not know the full extent of the operations. Certainly Hitler and Stalin killed more in their quests for racial and economic determinism respectively, which is why I'd put them on a tier above Kim Jong il. Then again, different people have different criteria for what makes someone's regime worse than the other.
