The Elgin Marbles, also known as the Parthenon Marbles, are a collection of classical Greek marble sculptures, inscriptions and architectural members that originally belonged to the Parthenon and other buildings on the Acropolis of Athens. Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin, the British ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1799-1803, had obtained a controversial permission from the Ottoman authorities to remove pieces from the Acropolis. From 1801 to 1812 Elgin's agents removed about half of the surviving sculptures of the Parthenon, as well as architectural members and sculpture from the Propylaea and Erechtheum. The Marbles were transported by sea to Britain. In Britain, Elgin was criticised for his actions, labelled by some as vandalism, and some contemporaries described him as a looter. However, following a public debate in Parliament and subsequent exoneration of Elgin's actions, the marbles were purchased by the British Government in 1816 and placed on display in the British Museum, where they stand now on view in the purpose-built Duveen Gallery. The legality of the removal has been questioned and the debate continues as to whether the Marbles should remain in the British Museum or be returned to Athens. The stolen marbles should return to Greece or stay in England?
I wonder where the marbles will be safest. In terms of how well they will be cared for and the quality of restoration work. Would the Parthenon be able to adequetly house them and prevent damage etc. (I don;t know how the greeks would propose to house them or if they would put them outside where they were found) Even if they are returned they are only a few of the marbles many more are still missing.
So the Greeks are confident then... looks like an expensive place. I'm not very good at law but from what I have read I don;t think the Greeks have that much of a claim. It is something that happened 200 years ago after all. But as I said I'm not sure so don;t have a go if I'm wrong.
I think Greece should get all of their statues back. I simply don't see how it is right to steal artifacts from other countries and that their only defense is that Greece would not be able to sufficiently house these statues. I just simply don't see the logic in that.
I think Greece should get all of their statues back. I simply don't see how it is right to steal artifacts from other countries and that their only defense is that Greece would not be able to sufficiently house these statues. I just simply don't see the logic in that.
I'm not representing my country here and as goumas pointed out they can and have made a museum to do so. Anway the museuams charter doesn;t allow it to return such artefacts apparentley. And the leagal principle of limitation may apply.
that their only defense is that Greece would not be able to sufficiently house these statues
How is that the museums only defense? If it was the case would have ended a long time ago.
What about the sheer impracticalities of moving them? They could easily be stolen, or the plane could come down, or the ship could sink. I think where they are is good, seeing as they've been housed there for quite some time now.
What about the sheer impracticalities of moving them? They could easily be stolen, or the plane could come down, or the ship could sink. I think where they are is good, seeing as they've been housed there for quite some time now.
There's a lot of what ifs that could be said, but the fact of the matter is that the statues belong to Greece and should be in their museums not in England's.
Just a point here it is the British museum and Elgin was born in Fife. As Byron wrote "What the Goths spared, the Scots have destroyed." But hey I'm being pedantic
The Elgin marbles aren't an isolated case. Should the Rosetta stone be given back or the Pergamon altar? there are so many museum pieces that were taken years ago and never returned. 30% of the marbles belong to Greece, 40% are lost and 30% are in the British Museum where 4.6 million people view them without charge. Anyway what were the turks using the Parthenon for? A munitions dump if the marbles had have been there they may have been destryoyed but hey maybes are useless. Rightfully, legally they belong in the British museum but I think they should be returned (on loan) just to improve relations etc.
The excuse of proper housing was ghe British Museum's only one for some time now. Now that most countries have sufficient facilities some treasures should be given back.
30% of the marbles belong to Greece, 40% are lost and 30% are in the British Museum where 4.6 million people view them without charge.
Millions of people view the Acropolis in Athens without charge. What's your point?
Anyway what were the turks using the Parthenon for? A munitions dump if the marbles had have been there they may have been destryoyed but hey maybes are useless.
That's not justification for keeping the marbles.
The only interest the Museum has for keeping these treasures is the money they bring in through sponsorships and advertisements. Legally, because they were taken such a long time ago (like most of the other treasures) they can get away with it, but that doesn't make it morally right in my opinion.
Millions of people view the Acropolis in Athens without charge. What's your point?
Sorry there was no point I just liked the figure <runs away>
<comes back>
That's not justification for keeping the marbles.
It was a small (yeah small) justification for taking them which (thanks to time <shakes fist at time> has led us to keep them through not giving them back. I think after all this time of requests etc. they should be given back to Greece I mean 'eck Sean Connery has said he think they should be given back (if I recall correctly but I'm tired so maybe not)
Oh and Firefly thay Antony Beevors book hasn't come yet, they're being annoyingly slow about it
My opinion is that the best solution is the English keep the marbles and give to Greece something theirs, like some 1800 paintings. But that's impossible.
I'm not sure the location of the items is relevant. There are german tanks in WW2 museums in places other then Germany. Da Vinci's Mona Lisa sits in the Louvre in France, rather then a museum in Italy. I don't see what the big deal is. I wouldn't say Greece has the sole rights to ancient greek culture.
I wouldn't say Greece has the sole rights to ancient greek culture.
That's true the Greek culture belongs to all humanity and should be everywhere. My problem is that England can have the Parthenon marbles, probably the best Greek monument, without giving something in return. The art and culture should belong to all humanity.
