So while I sit on this fence, I'm noticing all the Christians and Athiests arguing in their own threads, so I am making a thread for all the fence loving Agnostics.
Feel free to discuss religon and Athiesm just don't get carried away like the other threads.
I consider myself the ultimate fence sitter, a weak Agnostic =D Ok, so I'm not too much of a fence sitter because I'm skeptical towards religion, but I'd still like to know the facts. And I'm not going to go out insulting people who are religious, I may debate against it, but that's about it.
I've always been agnostic, but I'm definitely, really skeptical about religion. I like facts and actual proof you can see, touch, explain, etc... and I had some personal reasons as to why I've lost faith in any sort of "God."
Sarthra: That must make for interesting family reunions...but I'm not alien to the feeling either. Most of my extended family in China isn't Christian. It's a little hard for me to understand though, how you can "completely agree" with two radically different sides.
I just have to throw out the fact that I disagree with HiddenDistance. I'm an agnostic and a skeptic. I'm skeptical about organized religion, if there is a god or gods, I'm pretty sure that organized religions have it all wrong. I believe in science that can offer tangible proof but I'm skeptical about things that are just thoery. Some might call me an atheist because I seek proof, but I will consider those things that cannot be disproven a prossiblity. ex. The existance of god cannot be disproven. The existance of god and humanity as discribed in the Bible can be. We can prove without a doubt that humanity has been around much long than the Bible claims. We can prove that our planet could not have been created, as it is, in six days. Science can prove that our planet has gone through many environmental changes through out its long history. Religion offers no solid proof but expects people to have faith. I suppose I am without that type of faith. Nothing in my life as given me sufficient reason to have faith in that which I can find no absolute proof of, but life has never given me reason to disregard things I cannot disprove.
Ok, I'm seeing a lot of things that I might be able to clean up... First off, just for those who don't know, being agnostic means that you do believe that something, some entity beyond our comprehension (not the big bang theory) has created the universe and humanity. People who are agnostic don't believe that the man was God, or other religious deities, or they don't like the idea of organized religion. There are many reasons, most of them, basically saying "I need more proof than what a book says before I worship some guy they call God." That's totally fine with me (I am christian, BTW.) Eventually, most agnostic people convert. Atheism says that there is totally no possibility of any type of entity that created the universe, they either say "It was a 'Big Bang'" or they say we'll never know. I believe that this "big bang" was created by God, and he used Evolution as a tool to make humanity. And for the people that say god is an invisible man, I just wanna say this... there are actually 3 forms that we take God to be. 1.) The Father- The entity that actually made the universe, our father. 2.) The Son- which I take to be Jesus Christ. 3.) The Holy Spirit- The entity of God manifested into a human- like form. No- one except Moses has seen God in the holy spirit. I hope that cleans up a little bit of the smoke.
being agnostic means that you do believe that something, some entity beyond our comprehension (not the big bang theory) has created the universe and humanity.
WRONG.
Definition:
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable ; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
Also, you seem to be confused over what atheism is. It has nothing to do with the Big Bang.
I believe that this "big bang" was created by God,
aand i could argue that the big bang occurred because of parallel universes as small as membranes collide frequently causing endless big bangs, fits with string theory and 11th dimension. but that's for another thread and i'm tired atm
I believe in science that can offer tangible proof but I'm skeptical about things that are just theory.
Keep in mind that the term 'theory' does not mean 'educated guess'. Hypothesis would be much closer to that.
but I will consider those things that cannot be disproven a prossiblity. ex. The existance of god cannot be disproven.
The problem with this is that really, wild claims cannot be 'disproven', and it's not science's job to disprove wild claims. Take a page from Bertrand Russell's celestial teapot. I also acknowledge god as a possibility, but I disregard it and call myself an atheist because there's absolutely nothing to support that view. It is a possibility, but given what we *do* know about the nature of our universe makes the probability very small indeed.
We can prove without a doubt that humanity has been around much long than the Bible claims. We can prove that our planet could not have been created, as it is, in six days. Science can prove that our planet has gone through many environmental changes through out its long history.
You say that we can 'rove' these things without a doubt - but keep in mind that carbon dating and all other forms of science are based off of scientific 'theories'. How do you make the distinction between the theories that you think are not good, and theories that you think are rock solid proof? They work off of the exact same principles and scientific concepts of the development of our knowledge.
Also, you seem to be confused over what atheism is. It has nothing to do with the Big Bang.
Persoanlly for the last year I've been bouncing bck in forth between Christianity and a slightly agnostic view of God, Yahweh, Allah whatever. I settled on a more moderate view of Christianity than I had before, but that neither here nor there. Again personally I view agnostics as a whole as a group of people who believe that a god or some form of higher power exists but don't have faith in any particular one. Thats a tad oversimplified but I've learned it tends to work.
carbon dating and all other forms of science are based off of scientific 'theories'.
Actually archeology is where I see proof that the Earth has been around longer than some religions claim. I know that all sciences are based on 'theory' so I guess your right that I should use the word hypothesis. Theories however can still be disproven, it just means that no one has yet been able to dispove them. A theory can be tested, proven, and repeated but only with the data gathered about it thus far, data could be discovered that can contradict a theory.
