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Zep0Q
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Zep0Q
71 posts
Nomad

Before you comment, please, read everything, I'm sure that after you read, your life will be changed.

In the following sentences I will explain how stupid is to not believe in God, and I'm gonna use logical thinking and science.

Either "Everything came from nothing", like the "big bang" , witch is impossible, because nothing can only make nothing, or "Something always existed and made everything" like God.

God made this world, by this world I mean time, space and matter, so if God made this world, He lives outside of time, space and matter which means He's eternal, omnipresent and all-powerful.

For those of you who say that the big bang made the universe, I have this sentence: Nothing is the cause of it's own existence.
This doesn't apply to God, because if He doesn't lives in time, He didn't had a beginning, He always existed.
If the universe always was then, we could not reach this moment in time, if something is trapped in time, that means it had a beginning.

Every change that happens everywhere in the universe it's more closer to destruction.
Second law of thermodynamics:
The energy available after a chemical reaction is less than that at the beginning of a reaction; energy conversions are not 100% efficient.
The disorder in the universe always increases.
With each change in form, some energy is degraded to a less useful form and given off into the surroundings, usually as low-quality heat.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same, the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time. How so? Usable energy is inevitably used for productivity, growth and repair. In the process, usable energy is converted into unusable energy. Thus, usable energy is irretrievably lost in the form of unusable energy.

If God didn't made life, then how did non-life, became life?
As I said, nothing is the cause of it's own existence, life comes from life, your parents were alive when they made you.

Did you knew that a 2x2 inch capacity full with someone's DNA can sustain 6000000000 times more information then a 140 GB hard drive?
I guess you didn't knew, did evolution made your DNA?
God made your DNA, of course!

What about the monkeys?
If we evolved from them, why they stayed as they are? they took a long coffee break, I guess.

What about the fossils?
The scientists say that it takes millions and billions and zilions of years for living tissue to become a fossil, well here's 2 pictures with a cawboy's leg fossilized, enjoy
1#
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/limestone-cowboy-boot-outside.jpg
2#
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/limestone-cowboy-boot-inside.jpg

After all I have showed you, now I'm gonna say that you should accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, because He died for our sins and He didn't ask something from us, just to love our brothers and sisters and to believe in Him.
Anyone can ask for forgiveness as long as he or she is not dead, no matter what they did God can forgive them, if they repent from theirs sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
God is mercyful and just, His justice is not denyed by His mercy and this is the reason why God sent His Son Jesus to pay the price for us.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

  • 881 Replies
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Shepherd

with odds that are much too small to be coincidence


They wouldn't be coincidence. The forces of the Universe just. . .react that way. I wouldn't say that assuming a conscious being would have to assemble something if that something is precise is a bit of a big leap.

we have many other possibilities that could be true instead of a God existing.


. . .and all of those concepts have flaws in them that we haven't smoothed out yet.

Really, I don't think we'll ever even come close to knowing.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

It's my thought that he isn't, because it would seem very counterintuitive for him to create a world only to ruin it.


If we take it that he is unimaginable then this statement makes no sense. Our logic cannot determine what God believe is intuitive, funny, smart or dumb.

My point is that there are a number of possible scenarios that we could be in. Maybe we're all just brains in a vat being stimulated by electrodes.

It could be possible, but logically you are simply bringing up distracting decoy targets to distract from the argument.


I am saying that all the arguments on the issue are on a flawed basis, which can not be fixed as theres a limit to our knowledge.

We can't prove or disprove God's evidence empirically, but I believe that there is evidence to be found both ways in science and logic. On one end of the spectrum we have the amazingly fine-tuned parameters of the universe, with odds that are much too small to be coincidence.


Im taking it that I did not explain my theory of an unimaginable god. I wrote a good bit on this, that I wish I could find.

If god and his universe are unimaginable, that means you cannot take ANY logic or knowledge of this world you have to make statements on that of Gods. Even if the fine tuned universe could not be explained by the big bang, it would not quite suggest that a God was the creator of our universe. Though even a god created our world, that does not tell us what God is at all. It does not mean his a liar, a murderer or ???!?!? God's form, personality and his ??? are infinite. You would not know of something if you never knew it, and can only refer to something completely unknown as ???. If you lived in a little room all your life, what would your impressions be of what the year 3000 would look like? You would have no ideas to reason on! Just as we cannot know what exists in God's universe.

On the other hand, we have many other possibilities that could be true instead of a God existing. This is where faith and evidence meet. Much of what we do, whether in science or in life, is an intersection of faith or evidence. How many discoveries have been made or inventions created because someone had faith in an idea and confirmed it with evidence? I see my acceptance in the existence of a God something that I have faith in, and that I will find the evidence to see the idea through.


But having faith in a invention is backed with reason and logic.

What evidence reveals the identity of a God for God can be anything and all his actions can be explained by just "he felt like it".

Lets say someone makes that argument that God doesn't exist because there is so much strife in the world. I can give him the answer that God is too lazy, or that his evil. How could you argue against this?

You wouldn't be able to give examples of how hes been nice as I could easily say "thats how his logic works"
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Oh and yes, because we are limited in knowledge and so of our imagination there could be many possibilities to God existing that I cannot name.

Also, you mentioned faith. How logical does faith seem to you when you agree with me that there are infinite possibilities. Which do you pick?

Maybe God only allows people who have no faith into heaven. Maybe even those who know how to bake cookies. Say he wants to open up a cookie store and so he lets bakers go to his universe.

BigP08
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BigP08
1,455 posts
Shepherd

Bigp08
well dont start something if your going to do that if someone states a belief

What? I didn't attack anyone's beliefs. On those pages I defended my right to respect other people's beliefs.
Veobahamut
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Veobahamut
887 posts
Nomad

Because I don't want to believe in god.(Debate that wonderful point I made)

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Parsat, its quite funny how our giant posts are surrounded by one liners :-$

Veobahamut
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Veobahamut
887 posts
Nomad

Is there a reason why? Past experiences or something? What if he was real?


Well it goes like this... I don't care
marton96
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marton96
404 posts
Nomad

the holy spirit



who is that
Parsat
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Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

Parsat, its quite funny how our giant posts are surrounded by one liners :-$


It is, innit? Ah well, that's how it is. I haven't debated with you for quite a while.

Also, you mentioned faith. How logical does faith seem to you when you agree with me that there are infinite possibilities. Which do you pick?


Certainly, there are infinity possibilities. The key is in that they are possible. God could be a baker, or he could be a liar, or a nerd. Where's the evidence though? When I say faith, I don't mean blind faith; I mean something that you believe in with your initial evidence and something that you continue to find evidence for. So enough with the decoys.

I would also add that if God is an infinite being, that it would be very hard to ascribe human qualities to him.

Lets say someone makes that argument that God doesn't exist because there is so much strife in the world.


I must ask of you to refer to a previous thread on Evil and God, which you may remember: link. If you would like me to reelaborate, I'm more than happy to do so in a new thread or in a completely new post.

Even if the fine tuned universe could not be explained by the big bang, it would not quite suggest that a God was the creator of our universe.


I never said anything about the Big Bang. In fact, I believe that the Big Bang was the mechanism used to create the universe.

Though even a god created our world, that does not tell us what God is at all. It does not mean his a liar, a murderer or ???!?!? God's form, personality and his ??? are infinite. You would not know of something if you never knew it, and can only refer to something completely unknown as ???. If you lived in a little room all your life, what would your impressions be of what the year 3000 would look like? You would have no ideas to reason on! Just as we cannot know what exists in God's universe.


I do like the reference to Plato's allegory of the cave. It's at this point that we bring the discussion to Christianity. What I have argued is based on Christian belief, which can be found in the Bible, which I trust because I trust that the New Testament is historically accurate in its documentation (i.e. Jesus existed, was God, was crucified to death, and resurrected).

I expect that you'll pick apart the holes in my arguments and leave me to rebut your statements again, but I've also left clear avenues for discussion to proceed forth in a more detailed light so that we might not repeat ourselves again and again.
Veobahamut
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Veobahamut
887 posts
Nomad

Even if he, Jesus, the holy spirit and Heaven and Hell were real? You wouldn't follow him?


Nope.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Certainly, there are infinity possibilities. The key is in that they are possible. God could be a baker, or he could be a liar, or a nerd. Where's the evidence though? When I say faith, I don't mean blind faith; I mean something that you believe in with your initial evidence and something that you continue to find evidence for. So enough with the decoys.


Let me ask you. What kind of faith do you have. Do you just believe that god max exist or not, or do you take to the next step and act accordingly to how god would want you to?

I must ask of you to refer to a previous thread on Evil and God, which you may remember: link. If you would like me to reelaborate, I'm more than happy to do so in a new thread or in a completely new post.


I was not making that argument. I was actually attacking it.
What I meant is that you cannot hold God accountable for these things and reason that God is evil because of it. The argument is false since it assumes that God has the traits of a human.

It's at this point that we bring the discussion to Christianity. What I have argued is based on Christian belief, which can be found in the Bible, which I trust because I trust that the New Testament is historically accurate in its documentation (i.e. Jesus existed, was God, was crucified to death, and resurrected).


In arguing against Christianity and all religions which have faith in specific events, I have already stated my main argument.
By understanding that God could be an infinite things, we must realize that anything is possible.

Could I not say that God created the Bible as a little game? Or say God exists and that he did create the Earth, but he had no say in the bible but instead a few man wrote it? This must be true even now, since there are several major religions. If Christianity is right, then this is the case of the other religions.

Perhaps our God is a person playing Sims and we are the characters?
You know, it would be possible to create a program that was an exact copy of our universe. All of the functions of the Earth are followed by the law of action and reaction. Thus, it would be possible to recreate a living universe with rationals humans such as us if we had the time for the task.
Moabarmorgamer
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Moabarmorgamer
8,570 posts
Nomad

I'm an agnostic, and I'm not even going to argue with this thread. I mean, there's probably already 18 pages of that.
But I wanted to say that those pictures of "fossilized cawboy legs"(nice spelling on cowboy, by the way)are total fakes. They're just crumbling statues put in boots. You can tell, because in fossils it's supposed to be
A. Minerals created by a mold in the form of the fossilized object
B. The actual preserved bones of a creature
C. Imprint or track or proof of existence like that that was hardened into a rock.
And that is clearly not a fossil. If so, please explain to me how the boots are in near-perfect condition, but the skin is fossilized. Hm? Didn't you go to fifth grade? Learn science and how fossils are made?
I do admire the hard work you clearly put into this, though. But don't base your claims on bogus evidence like those "cowboy fossils". It's true, it takes millions of years to make fossils like that. And some of your arguments, while I can see where you're coming from, I don't see how that is supposed to convince me of God's presence.

Did you knew that a 2x2 inch capacity full with someone's DNA can sustain 6000000000 times more information then a 140 GB hard drive?
I guess you didn't knew, did evolution made your DNA?
God made your DNA, of course!

And your point is...? And plus, your grammar sucks. No offense, but it does.
After all I have showed you, now I'm gonna say that you should accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, because He died for our sins and He didn't ask something from us, just to love our brothers and sisters and to believe in Him.
Anyone can ask for forgiveness as long as he or she is not dead, no matter what they did God can forgive them, if they repent from theirs sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
God is mercyful and just, His justice is not denyed by His mercy and this is the reason why God sent His Son Jesus to pay the price for us.


Yup, yup. And how did this religion start? Joseph Smith claimed that his son was a savior of humanity when his son was born. The people of the time, being gullible, believed him. And Smith and Jesus were treated like gods. Because, according to Smith, his son was.
And if I recall, the demons in hell(including Lucifer)were sent there because they wanted to be with mortal women? Well, explain to me how God impregnated Mary with his son, and that's not a relationship with a mortal. And explain to me how that still makes her a virgin.
What about the monkeys?
If we evolved from them, why they stayed as they are? they took a long coffee break, I guess.

We both evolved from the same base thing. But we did not evolve from monkeys. Why people say that, I don't know.
I do believe something started all of this, and then evolution kicked in. But I don't believe at all that it was God. That religion is so full of holes it's like Swiss cheese. Although no religion is perfect.
Aw well. I'm not flaming or anything, just trying to give my honest opinion. And I like debating.
deserteagle
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deserteagle
1,633 posts
Nomad

So rotting in Hell sounds like a lot of fun to you then...


Meh.. Every one I know is going to hell, so might as well join.
BigP08
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BigP08
1,455 posts
Shepherd

Meh.. Every one I know is going to hell, so might as well join.

Does that include me?
valkyrie1119
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valkyrie1119
1,720 posts
Nomad

I'm sure that after you read, your life will be changed.


In a way this is an epic fail, and three words explains why:

YOU WERE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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