ForumsGamesGeneral Colony Discussion

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firetail_madness
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firetail_madness
20,591 posts
Blacksmith

So, since my last competition was pretty much a discussion, I'll now close that and move over to this general colony discussion (the others are all specific)

TALK ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO COLONY (and beef burgers)

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guesty9999
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guesty9999
23 posts
Nomad

hmm..... early post build.... hmm...
nope *cough*tdh*cough* can't think of one *cough*bank post cap*cough*

anyway....

I just noticed how different the 1v1 meta game is, compared to earlier in this games life.

suddenly, cap is the strongest, with fasc close behind.
mon is viable, but both cap and fasc JUST beat it.
though.... commie is still last.....
however.... there are some effective commie builds....
like commie dual. when I tested it out (with zachh) cap only just beat it, and that was because of some miscalculations on my part....

anyway... when compared to the games builds earlier in its life, there is much more room for skill, and more variety in builds.
e.g. I can easly beat a noob goin cap bank post with some bizare build, like gen post.....
also, now there isn't just one build that easly beats all, like the ol' fast BQ or mon builds....

just throwing that out there....

PowerOfSauce
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PowerOfSauce
502 posts
Shepherd

mon is viable, but both cap and fasc JUST beat it.


Fasc has a very hard time with mon because it lacks the flexibility to hard counter every option that mon has, and mon has a LOT of options. Cap is also very flexible, but it needs to follow very specific macro paths to hard counter mon builds, and if it fails to do so, then cap is likely to be at a large disadvantage. Well-played mon cannot be dealt with on the spot. In order to win against mon, it's crucial to predict what the mon is going to do. If the mon player makes use of fake buildings and building cancelling, then that can make things very difficult for a cap or fasc opponent. For example, a mon player could start with bank, and then make a fake hospital. Most opponents would expect something like bank war sanc, or bank hosp post, but each build relies heavily on war sanc units. If an ops is made at this point, **** gets real, and it wouldn't take that much longer to get the ops since you'll have kept the $40 from cancelling the hospital. On the other hand, if a mon player actually built a hospital but decided to keep it idling, then the opponent might be tricked into thinking that it's fake.
vitamink
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vitamink
37 posts
Nomad

Fasc has a very hard time with mon because it lacks the flexibility to hard counter every option that mon has, and mon has a LOT of options. Cap is also very flexible, but it needs to follow very specific macro paths to hard counter mon builds, and if it fails to do so, then cap is likely to be at a large disadvantage. Well-played mon cannot be dealt with on the spot. In order to win against mon, it's crucial to predict what the mon is going to do. If the mon player makes use of fake buildings and building cancelling, then that can make things very difficult for a cap or fasc opponent. For example, a mon player could start with bank, and then make a fake hospital. Most opponents would expect something like bank war sanc, or bank hosp post, but each build relies heavily on war sanc units. If an ops is made at this point, **** gets real, and it wouldn't take that much longer to get the ops since you'll have kept the $40 from cancelling the hospital. On the other hand, if a mon player actually built a hospital but decided to keep it idling, then the opponent might be tricked into thinking that it's fake.

Fantastic breakdown by POS. Monarchy is the most unpredictable of the governments, since they do not require much teching to access powerful units. Combine other units into the mix of powerful influence units, and you have a win.

But Monarchy does have its weaknesses, and with the situation that POS described, it is still possible to defeat a mon player.

Monarchy relies on early units that overpower the opponent's. The stronger units and a mix of any others will defeat the opposition very quickly. Monarchy is the biggest table turner.

However, it does have its flaws.

Monarchy lacks build speed and resource gain.

Obviously relies more on the influence units a lot more, but they can be defeated by tier 3 units from forge or post.

Getting out-teched by your opponent is the biggest reason most lose as mon (when used correctly of course). When the enemy's army is gone, kill the base! Don't give them the chance to turn the tables with advanced units.

I learned from experience, after killing enemy off, i sit back and fool around, and then boom, hovers and etc. defeat you.

(Btw, mon gains more energy than man power, so a forge/mon combo is technically better than post/mon)

Early forge actually sees a lot of action, i guess that people are lazy and dont micro so they dont go early post that much..

early forge: people swarming scouts

i would say that commi is the next most unpredictable.
guesty9999
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guesty9999
23 posts
Nomad

let's break it down, shall we?

cap v mon:
I'm assuming y'all know the counters by tdh inc.
in theory, cap can counter every single thing mon throws at it. it's just a matter of foreshadowing mons moves before they happen. in practice however, mon can jiggle around and make life for the cap pretty hard.....
still.... cap wins officially.

mon v fasc:
ok, I won't lie...
this is VERY hard on the fasc, but played right, it should still win I think.

let's go over the individual scenarios:
mon goes bank ops, easy. just a matter of Romans and that's it.....
mon goes bank forge/arm, lol, scout pin and it's over....
bank hosp/ bank gen, the scout pin will handle saints/mods and Romans don't hurt (the fasc, hehe...)
bank post, ok, this one is HARD.... and deservs breaking it down even further:
bank pos ops: post v forge micro at the start, followed by judicious application of Romans, should do it... (yes, I've tested this...)
bank post hosp: gah, this one can be very, very VERY hard.if they make meds, than a very carefully executed roman charge should take um out. if they dont get meds, they can get two (!!!) saints. in which case a lot of scouts and an ops team can just barely take um out. a sphinx isn't much trouble, but still forces u to be careful. and if they go bank post hosp ops, dualling to get a tank pin is very much an option....

to summarize, fasc has to play very aggressive, and use a lot of Romans to force the mons hand. it is very tricky, and a single mistake will most likely cost the game.

I'd love feedback. but if u claim you've tried it and it didn't work, I did say its hard....

good luck, and have fun in your future games.

SoymasterYos
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SoymasterYos
971 posts
Nomad

I think that Soyarchy is the most unpredictable gov. -.-'

Monarchy isn't unpredictable. You can tell what any standard build is from the 2nd building. Mon owns Fas because of the options Mon has. Fas players need to play a smart aggressive or smart preventive style in this match.

trying
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trying
468 posts
Bard

No. Democracy is the most unpredictable.

Dual builds pretty much always win against mon.

PowerOfSauce
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PowerOfSauce
502 posts
Shepherd

I think that Soyarchy is the most unpredictable gov


I think YOS's innovative builds are the most unpredictable. I surely didn't see the groditz one coming.

No. Democracy is the most unpredictable.


lol

Dual builds pretty much always win against mon.


Dual builds can do rather well against most many mon builds, but I feel that early dual builds still have their relative inability to deal with ops units. This is because the only reliable way to counter early ops is to kill or pin down the opponent beforehand. If a player decides to go for a dual build as a result of, say, a fake hospital, a fake post, or anything, then once again, **** gets real.
vitamink
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vitamink
37 posts
Nomad

Dude Anarchy will pwn all the other govs.

Mon vs. Cap is a definete win for Cap as Cap's OP resource gain allows it to improvise and adapt to watever magic trick monarchy can pull off.

heres examples

Mon>Arm>ModPhantom

well this is an initial shocker but from build speed, most can tell wat hes gunna do...

As cap, most go bank&gtost...

well most go like oh **** im ded...

NO

hmm..cap has crazy res gain, ima go dual

Dual builds pretty much always win against mon.

very very true.. so lets dual

gets AA spider or scout

mon is pretty dead, but with 2 res buildings stuff can happen.

but cap has a huge edge with AA capibility and obvious antigrounds. Forge can get energy, raise a arm getting money and you will have yourself a arsenal pretty quickly, and mon gets pwnt pretty quickly with tier 3s.

Btw, wats the best 2v2 build in ur opinion?
soccerdude2
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soccerdude2
1,673 posts
Shepherd

Mon vs. Cap is a definete win for Cap as Cap's OP resource gain allows it to improvise and adapt to watever magic trick monarchy can pull off.


No. it's not. I'm not gonna go into details but nothing is EVER a definite win. There might be advantages towards a certain direction but one push or unforeseen trick by the mon player can make a difference.

Mon owns Fas because of the options Mon has. Fas players need to play a smart aggressive or smart preventive style in this match.


Once again, nothing is for certain... Fasci will always win the early battle against a mon player no matter what due to lack of influence units. This allows Fasci to either take down the base/force a post against bank ops, or pin the Mon player with a mix of scouts and romans. Once the mon has a post they almost always go saints, which can be countered by scouts, however saints plus marines is actually very tough to beat, so fasci has to keep the pressure on with romans to force mon to defend so that when the saints come out they are immediately harassed by scouts and they become confused as well from romans.

Wait a minute, I realize I'm actually forgetting a lot that can come into play here, like bank post ops or other. I'm not exactly sure what smart aggressive and smart preventive styles are either, but they probably have to do with being smart.

Guesty probably said it better than me but eh.
vitamink
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vitamink
37 posts
Nomad

Fasci will always win the early battle against a mon player no matter what due to lack of influence units.

Hai. I'll pretend that made sense, mon has win with a simple bank&gtost>ops

now if you said that mon wins early game only, then yea. Mon then needs to finsh Fasci off before he gets leverage.

however saints plus marines is actually very tough to beat

dude AA spider plus roman wave is a win

Dude i hate high school so much, and a beef burger would be very nice right now
MiamiBigAL
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MiamiBigAL
105 posts
Nomad

I haven't been on in months but from what I remember.

Fascist vs Mon (player on right side wins)

1. Fascist bank forge opener. Mon Bank Post opener (any other build will always gets owned)

2. Fascist goes generator, enough Roman pressure to force a hospital from Mon player. Eliminates bank post ops strategy from Mon player.

3. Fascist dual builds after seeing hospital to counter both saints and ops. With tank pin, marines are not a problem, and neither are scouts.

4. Mon goes for sanc to force lots of scouts, switches to ops if fascist gets too many scouts. Double missile break to get ops teams clear of tanks. Must build enough tanks afterwards to kill a mod sakata.

5. Fascist gets mod sakata to kill base after Mon player wastes missiles on tank layers. Roman/tank/mod sakata rush with missile dodge to win.

That's pretty much it for fascist vs Mon. It is 4vs5 when it comes down to who wins if you play both sides right. Enjoy.


Cap will also beat Mon every time if you play cap right (which is extremely difficult to do).

MiamiBigAL
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MiamiBigAL
105 posts
Nomad

oops, 3. should say "and neither are saints"

MiamiBigAL
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MiamiBigAL
105 posts
Nomad

Actually I think fascist can also go bank/forge/gen/ops to depending on mon build, but I forget where that comes in.

vitamink
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vitamink
37 posts
Nomad

love teh discussion goin on, thread is really back alive again

nice to see u back mba!

well, in fasci vs mon, teh AA spider is the biggest threat to a build, and with roman waves, its tuff for the mon player to survive. but with bank post ops things will be very tricky at that point.

so if ur fasci playing against mon, you obviously will prevent that from happening by pressuring the mon player and not allowing the special operations to come out.

however, once it is out, missle followed by teams+pride and tanks will shut mr fasci down pretty quickly.

GG

vitamink
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vitamink
37 posts
Nomad

Actually I think fascist can also go bank/forge/gen/ops to depending on mon build, but I forget where that comes in.

imo, arm is pretty essential
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