Forums → Games → Ge.ne.sis REVIEW: 4/10

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yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 23, '09 6:17pm UTC

Ge.ne.sis

Overview:
This game has really beautiful artwork, filled with bright colours and an interesting use of horizontal scrolling that put you into the game when your characters move. There is also a very interesting way for all the characters to work together in order to defeat the foes. The idea that you can mold your characters by choice using special abilities is interesting as well. This adds to the replay ability for the game. So it has the potential to be a very interesting game!

Synopsis:
In the beginning of the game, your character wakes up from a dream in this colourful fantasy land. You then do battles against monsters, recruiting the help of ghosts called Tarots, who have special attacking or healing powers. You do this apparently, in order to get back to your home. But there is no real reason why theses things are attacking you, is there ever a reason in these games?

Along your journey in dreamland, you meet up with friends who have their own special powers, and you fight more monsters that get tougher as the game progresses. The actual storyline doesn't appear to have much of a plot, as the battles progress from one schizophrenic scene to the next. However, it's enough to captivate younger children into playing this whenever you have to babysit them, like your little sister whenever your parents are out of town. But that could be a problem, and you'll just have to follow the star* to see why (below).

Criticism:
So the game is described as a strategy and tactics game in its comments section. This is true and it isn't. One true part involves the shared use of the energy pool by magic users, including the Tarot ghosts. The ghosts have extraordinary powers that help the team, but sometimes can't be used because another character coughed up a fireball to win their individual fight, and so you may lose the battle this way. One reason that it's NOT a strategy game involves character building, distributing achievement points into abilities. This should require strategical planning but it doesn't. You have to build the characters according to the walkthrough recipes (Gely's recipes are sniper or endurance builds and the point distributions are given). To describe the actual battle as tactical is kinda false as well. There is no way to know how to win a battle, as they involve solutions that can only be met through trial and error. But trial and error is no fun in a game. Who wants to be stuck losing over and over again? I am at the 24th battle, and there's NO way to solve the situations ahead of time. YOU MUST study the WALKTHROUGH in order to win the game. But if you're like me, then you consider that cheating, so you try not to use it...TRUST ME, you'll just be wasting your time if you don't study it, and studying it is just a waste of time, because, what's the point?

So take a look from the walkthrough for the 19th battle, and just ask yourself how many times you'd have to lose this battle over and over before you understood where to place all the characters and how to NOT TO USE the High Priestess, etc....Walkthrough:

If Gely went for an endurance build, have him and Nera block the choke point. Sisi and the Magician can stand behind them to provide support fire. The High Priestess should stand next to the bow bandits to absorb damage, but she shouldn't attack them. It is best to have her heal herself or other allies. ...If Gely went for a sniper build, have him stand right behind the rock and snipe the bow bandits with Marksmanship Perk. The High Priestess can take his place and block the choke point.

So, uhm, where is the strategy and tactics that those fake users** have been cooing so much about? Well, the tactics and strategy aren't for you to figure out, they are for you to FOLLOW. You MUST follow the walkthrough to build your character, and then you MUST follow the walkthrough to win the battles. How is that any FUN? IT'S NOT ANY FUN.

So I am very critical of the author for creating a game that is unsolvable by the player's own mind. You should be able to solve a puzzle BEFORE you start the fight, just by looking at where the monsters are, knowing how they move, and what their abilities are. In this game, you only know after several tries of "maybe this will work, maybe that will work...oh I better read the solution in the Walkthrough. WHAT? How would I have known that!?"

Conclusion:
This game is a disappointment in that it doesn't live up to its potential. It is rife with FRUSTRATING gameplay that requires a lot of walkthrough study to win. But the artwork and animation is FANTASTIC, so if you like this kind of artwork and you are looking for ideas, then you should definately look at this game!!! Link:

Ge.ne.sis

* WARNING: The language used in Ge.ne.sis may not be suitable for some members in the AG community, or your little sister whom you has to babysit!!!

**PS - There's an online campaign by the developers or friends of the developers to make this game seem less FRUSTRATING than it already is. So please be aware of these users. The game came out in mid October, and you'll see new users with posts around the games' debut saying that they beat it and how cool it was. Or they'll describe the game in Chapters, insta-expert of the unfinished walkthrough, but their profile says that this is the only game they've ever played and the only one they've ever commmented on. So the AG people need to know the possibility that this type of campaign is going on. AG should run their own investigation to censor this type of activity and ban this user, hoping it's not the author herself, as she likes to respond to them! This is not an accusation, so please let AG run its own investigation on the game's comment section, the author's page, and the Ge.ne.sis. walkthrough thread.

Grade: 4/10, pretty to look at, but frustrating to play.

Photos:

The Treasure Room: Beautiful use of color and shading, with foreground scrolling to give depth to the scenery. On the right-hand side you may select the difficulty setting, Easy, Normal, or Insane!

Points: Achievement points determine the nature of a character's strengths and weaknesses in battle.

Perks: Spells that the characters can use require achievement points.

Battle: A scene from the 24th Battle.

[b]Ge.ne.sis[/b]\r\n\r\n[i]Overview:[/i]\r\nThis game has really beautiful artwork, filled with bright colours and an interesting use of horizontal scrolling that put you into the game when your characters move. There is also a very interesting way for all the characters to work together in order to defeat the foes. The idea that you can mold your characters by choice using special abilities is interesting as well. This adds to the replay ability for the game. So it has the potential to be a very interesting game!\r\n\r\n[i]Synopsis:[/i]\r\nIn the beginning of the game, your character wakes up from a dream in this colourful fantasy land. You then do battles against monsters, recruiting the help of ghosts called Tarots, who have special attacking or healing powers. You do this apparently, in order to get back to your home. But there is no real reason why theses things are attacking you, is there ever a reason in these games? \r\n\r\nAlong your journey in dreamland, you meet up with friends who have their own special powers, and you fight more monsters that get tougher as the game progresses. The actual storyline doesn't appear to have much of a plot, as the battles progress from one schizophrenic scene to the next. However, it's enough to captivate younger children into playing this whenever you have to babysit them, like your little sister whenever your parents are out of town. But that could be a problem, and you'll just have to follow the star* to see why (below). \r\n\r\n[i]Criticism:[/i]\r\nSo the game is described as a strategy and tactics game in its comments section. This is true and it isn't. One true part involves the shared use of the energy pool by magic users, including the Tarot ghosts. The ghosts have extraordinary powers that help the team, but sometimes can't be used because another character coughed up a fireball to win their individual fight, and so you may lose the battle this way. One reason that it's NOT a strategy game involves character building, distributing achievement points into abilities. This should require strategical planning but it doesn't. You have to build the characters according to the walkthrough recipes (Gely's recipes are sniper or endurance builds and the point distributions are given). To describe the actual battle as tactical is kinda false as well. There is no way to know how to win a battle, as they involve solutions that can only be met through trial and error. But trial and error is no fun in a game. Who wants to be stuck losing over and over again? I am at the 24th battle, and there's NO way to solve the situations ahead of time. YOU MUST study the WALKTHROUGH in order to win the game. But if you're like me, then you consider that cheating, so you try not to use it...TRUST ME, you'll just be wasting your time if you don't study it, and studying it is just a waste of time, because, what's the point? \r\n\r\nSo take a look from the walkthrough for the 19th battle, and just ask yourself how many times you'd have to lose this battle over and over before you understood where to place all the characters and how to NOT TO USE the High Priestess, etc....Walkthrough:\r\n\r\n[quote]If Gely went for an endurance build, have him and Nera block the choke point. Sisi and the Magician can stand behind them to provide support fire. The High Priestess should stand next to the bow bandits to absorb damage, but she shouldn't attack them. It is best to have her heal herself or other allies. ...If Gely went for a sniper build, have him stand right behind the rock and snipe the bow bandits with Marksmanship Perk. The High Priestess can take his place and block the choke point.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo, uhm, where is the strategy and tactics that those [b]fake users[/b]** have been cooing so much about? Well, the tactics and strategy aren't for you to figure out, they are for you to FOLLOW. You MUST follow the walkthrough to build your character, and then you MUST follow the walkthrough to win the battles. How is that any FUN? [b]IT'S NOT ANY FUN.[/b]\r\n\r\nSo I am very critical of the author for creating a game that is unsolvable by the player's own mind. You should be able to solve a puzzle BEFORE you start the fight, just by looking at where the monsters are, knowing how they move, and what their abilities are. In this game, you only know after several tries of "maybe this will work, maybe that will work...oh I better read the solution in the Walkthrough. WHAT? How would I have known that!?" \r\n\r\n[i]Conclusion:[/i]\r\nThis game is a disappointment in that it doesn't live up to its potential. It is rife with FRUSTRATING gameplay that requires a lot of walkthrough study to win. But the [b]artwork and animation is FANTASTIC[/b], so if you like this kind of artwork and you are looking for ideas, then you should definately look at this game!!! Link:\r\n\r\n[url=http://armorgames.com/play/4707/genesis]Ge.ne.sis [/url]\r\n\r\n* [b]WARNING:[/b] The language used in Ge.ne.sis may not be suitable for some members in the AG community, or your little sister whom you has to babysit!!!\r\n\r\n**[b]PS - There's an online campaign by the developers or friends of the developers to make this game seem less FRUSTRATING than it already is.[/b] So please be aware of these users. The game came out in mid October, and you'll see [b]new users [/b]with posts around the games' debut saying that they beat it and how cool it was. Or they'll [b]describe the game in Chapters[/b], insta-expert of the unfinished walkthrough, but their profile says that this is the only game they've ever played and the only one they've ever commmented on. So the AG people need to know the possibility that this type of campaign is going on. AG should run their own investigation to censor this type of activity and ban this user, hoping it's not the author herself, as she likes to respond to them! This is not an accusation, so please let AG run its own investigation on the game's comment section, the author's page, and the Ge.ne.sis. walkthrough thread.\r\n\r\nGrade: 4/10, pretty to look at, but frustrating to play.\r\n\r\n\r\nPhotos: \r\n\r\n[url=http://i34.tinypic.com/23k3vae.jpg]The Treasure Room[/url]: Beautiful use of color and shading, with foreground scrolling to give depth to the scenery. On the right-hand side you may select the difficulty setting, Easy, Normal, or Insane!\r\n\r\n[url=http://i37.tinypic.com/2ynmlqx.jpg]Points[/url]: Achievement points determine the nature of a character's strengths and weaknesses in battle.\r\n\r\n[url=http://i36.tinypic.com/11b20ww.jpg]Perks[/url]: Spells that the characters can use require achievement points. \r\n\r\n[url=http://i35.tinypic.com/syp0t0.jpg]Battle[/url]: A scene from the 24th Battle.

45 Replies

offline

yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 29, '09 7:49pm UTC

Hi Ultimatum479, thanks for your comments,

This response is a little long so I've divided it into parts, and while I understand your concerns, I think you went a little overboard in some of your assumptions of this game.

Part 1. Evaluation
This game is described as tactical, which means there are puzzles to solve (battles). If you know anything about Chess, then you'll know that there are two types of tactical positions which may be termed sharp, and loose. In loose positions there is flexibility that allows the player to make slight errors without penalty. Additionally, a loose position may become very sharp over the next few turns. In sharp positions, however, any false move will lose the game immediately, even though the player may not realized the battle is lost until checkmate. The problem with Ge.ne.sis is that the starting positions of many of the battles are just too sharp.

The sharpness in the game has to do with the management of both static and kinetic elements. The static elements are the set-up of team, including Tarots. A false placement and you'll lose the battle, though you won't realize it until the end. There are also elements of kinetic sharpness: team management of the magic pool in preparation for battle, and the fights themselves. To be good in this area, you must fully exploit both the mechanic and the characters' attributes against their foes'. To be successful requires total immersion into the Guide. Like Chess, you just don't get to play the game without developing a solid reason behind every decision you make to exploit the resources.

Knowing how to exploit your resources doesn't just take study, it also takes both practice and presence of mind. This is because every battle presence new situations, and so you have to engage in trial-and-error. One fine example is the exploitation of Gel's Jelly; it doesn't do a lot of damage, but is used to reduce dodge - you wouldn't know this before you tried it, and it can actually help win battles.

So I think the game is interesting, and I find it challenging, but I think it could be more FUN. This might involve feeling dominant after eeking out a win in a tough battle, by fighting a similar looking battle with ultimate domination because your characters gained a level (when the characters gain levels in Ge.ne.sis, it appears to prepare them for the next battle, rather than letting the player enjoy being dominant - if only for a single sidequest - and makes you feel 1 step behind the enemy). FUN could involve enjoying an environment's flexibility, to discover new areas or special hidden items that you didn't know existed on your previous playthrough! I think FUN also involves being able to make slight errors without such drastic penalties, but not necessariy making the game easier, just more flexible.

Improvements. Loosen the game a bit. One way to loosen the static element is to incorporate a larger battlefield. One way to loosen the kinetics is to incorporate optional side quests, with focus lessons on particular areas of the mechanic and attributes, before proceeding to higher levels. The Save Cups before each side quest could provide more HINTS, offering players to consult strategy guide at page number x, for further information if they aren't successful. In this way, the developer can lead the players through the guide and the game simultaneously so that players of all levels can enjoy it.

Side note - the battlegrid itself. You are completely right and I was completely wrong about the hexagon substitution. Hexagons wouldn't simplify the code. Besides, the game is based on the Tarot, so the developer should keep the square grid as it is reminiscent of cards. There should also be an online Ge.ne.sis Tarot Deck, as it would be beautiful and interesting to look at - pure genius that The Fool looks like a jack-in-the-box, and would help fund the sequel.

BUG-1 - Treasure Room, bandits. Game freeze in Magician's attack phase after suicidal meterostrike on a monster standing too close.

BUG-2 - Text display - Phase A, Phase A1: Attack

Part 2. disagreements.

Is there any basis for my belief for the presence of fake members?

I want to thank everyone specially those who had sent me emails and offered to be game testers! I got over 30 emails which is lot more than I expected! Unfortunately, the numbers of game testers are limited, therefore, I won't be able to offer everyone the tester position. After screening all the requests, I have picked 6 testers...

Genesis History:

Hi everyone!

Ge.ne.sis is released on Armor Game. Please click on the following banner to play it:
If you do like the game, please support by rating it. Thank you!

The developer tells his supporters to rate the game at AG. This requires AG registration and opens up the ability for comments. Isn't it safe to assume that long-term supporters signed up to AG just to add SUPER POSITIVE comments? So this wasn't a baseless belief. But there's nothing wrong against this kind of shameless self-promotion, just as there is nothing wrong with my observation that such members and comments exist.

Difficulty of the game, and its target niche.

When the game came out, it was perceived by many as too difficult. This period lasted 4 days. The greatest part of my initial review had to do with exasperation through this original version. It's difficulty level was situated somewhere between the Normal and Insane levels because there was no REPLAY button.

Oct 20 2009, 11:16 PM
New version has been uploaded. The major change is a feature to adjust game difficulty (Easy, Normal and Insane!) mode. Enjoy!

Yet you were able to finish all 45 original levels in less than 1 day. So how did you do it? With help. You had an extra Tarot!

Oct 20 2009, 04:22 AM
EternalLurker
I do think Sisily is significantly underpowered...and her Tarots, while strong, are not generally as useful as the others'.

Oct 22 2009, 02:59 AM
EternalLurker
There are two Divine Breaths in the game. I don't remember where I got them but I definitely had two at the Tale Memory. (And all my potions. I had completely forgotten to use any items by that point in the game. D: )

Oct 22 2009, 03:05 AM
An
The second Divine Breath is actually rewarded [b]after the battle with the Lovers[b/] (along with a Golden Breath), Enternal Lurker. I don't think normal players will have access to it.

So the game was originally designed for 2 tarots, not 1, and the extra potions. This would explain why Sissy is so weak, she is complemented in her weakness by the second Tarot. Therefore, maybe making the game more difficult was done not to cater to an elite niche of players, like yourself, but to motivate the average player to donate to the developer, and receive the Lovers!

Do I think that you're an alt of the developer?

No. If you were an alt, and you forced me to guess who's alt you were. Then I would answer that you were an alt of someone on the development team, like Ricky the Fish, the chief beta tester and editor of the Guide.

Why wasn't RtF sac'd after you discovered all those bugs? Maybe he was too busy writing the Guide in preparation for the AG deadline, while the developer was too busy getting the final version processed to take time out for testing. Still, the team of testers has been very quiet.

Why didn't RtF protest your promotion to edit the sequel's Guide, after your AMAZING short-term recall detailing the paths to victory in battle 23 for both offensive and defense builds? Maybe he's too busy with other things to edit its sequel.

But that would be my guess, if I had to guess...or someone else on the team. And if you weren't on the team, then this would mean that you are a computer gaming programmer with lots of time on your hands, who's familiar with bug reports, and is an elite member of the RPG player's niche, yet somehow, even though the buzz was stirring from October 2008, had never heard of Ge.ne.sis until October 2009, because no one in your elite computer programming/RPG gaming world had ever mentioned it. Well, maybe you had no previous exposure to Ge.ne.sis, I suppose anything is possible.

So if you are an alt of someone on the development team, that's fine, if you're someone else entirely, then take the "not-a-guess" as a complement to your incredible abilities comprehending the game, memorizing the battles, and finding the bugs. You are surely at the top of your niche...minus the extra Tarot!

Last thoughts for improvement: Make more tarots have the ability to influence other characters in similar ways like the Death Tarot --- AND release the sequel during a school break so people have more free time to invest.

Hi Ultimatum479, thanks for your comments, \r\n\r\nThis response is a little long so I've divided it into parts, and while I understand your concerns, I think you went a little overboard in some of your assumptions of this game. \r\n\r\nPart 1. [b]Evaluation[/b]\r\nThis game is described as [i]tactical[/i], which means there are puzzles to solve (battles). If you know anything about Chess, then you'll know that there are two types of tactical positions which may be termed sharp, and loose. In loose positions there is flexibility that allows the player to make slight errors without penalty. Additionally, a loose position may become very sharp over the next few turns. In sharp positions, however, any false move will lose the game immediately, even though the player may not realized the battle is lost until checkmate. The problem with Ge.ne.sis is that the starting positions of many of the battles are just too sharp. \r\n\r\nThe sharpness in the game has to do with the management of both static and kinetic elements. The static elements are the set-up of team, including Tarots. A false placement and you'll lose the battle, though you won't realize it until the end. There are also elements of kinetic sharpness: team management of the magic pool in preparation for battle, and the fights themselves. To be good in this area, you must fully exploit both the mechanic and the characters' attributes against their foes'. To be successful requires total immersion into the Guide. Like Chess, you just don't get to play the game without developing a solid reason behind every decision you make to exploit the resources.\r\n\r\nKnowing how to exploit your resources doesn't just take study, it also takes both practice and presence of mind. This is because every battle presence new situations, and so you have to engage in trial-and-error. One fine example is the exploitation of Gel's Jelly; it doesn't do a lot of damage, but is used to reduce dodge - you wouldn't know this before you tried it, and it can actually help win battles.\r\n\r\nSo I think the game is interesting, and I find it challenging, but I think it could be more FUN. This might involve feeling dominant after eeking out a win in a tough battle, by fighting a similar looking battle with ultimate domination because your characters gained a level (when the characters gain levels in Ge.ne.sis, it appears to prepare them for the next battle, rather than letting the player enjoy being dominant - if only for a single sidequest - and makes you feel 1 step behind the enemy). FUN could involve enjoying an environment's flexibility, to discover new areas or special hidden items that you didn't know existed on your previous playthrough! I think FUN also involves being able to make slight errors without such drastic penalties, but not necessariy making the game easier, just more flexible. \r\n\r\nImprovements. Loosen the game a bit. One way to loosen the static element is to incorporate a larger battlefield. One way to loosen the kinetics is to incorporate optional side quests, with focus lessons on particular areas of the mechanic and attributes, before proceeding to higher levels. The Save Cups before each side quest could provide more HINTS, offering players to consult strategy guide at page number x, for further information if they aren't successful. In this way, the developer can lead the players through the guide and the game simultaneously so that players of all levels can enjoy it.\r\n\r\nSide note - the battlegrid itself. [b]You are completely right[/b] and I was completely wrong about the hexagon substitution. Hexagons wouldn't simplify the code. Besides, the game is based on the Tarot, so the developer should keep the square grid as it is reminiscent of cards. There should also be an online Ge.ne.sis Tarot Deck, as it would be beautiful and interesting to look at - pure genius that The Fool looks like a jack-in-the-box, and would help fund the sequel.  \r\n\r\nBUG-1 - Treasure Room, bandits. Game freeze in Magician's attack phase after suicidal meterostrike on a monster standing too close.\r\n\r\nBUG-2 - Text display - Phase A, Phase A1: Attack \r\n\r\n\r\nPart 2. [b]disagreements.[/b]\r\n\r\n[i] Is there any basis for my belief for the presence of fake members?[/i]\r\n\r\n[quote]  I want to thank everyone specially those who had sent me emails and offered to be game testers! I got over 30 emails which is lot more than I expected! Unfortunately, the numbers of game testers are limited, therefore, I won't be able to offer everyone the tester position. After screening all the requests, I have picked 6 testers...[/quote]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.1manstudio.net/genesis/news_2.html]Genesis History:[/url]\r\n\r\n[quote]Hi everyone!\r\n\r\nGe.ne.sis is released on Armor Game. Please click on the following banner to play it:\r\nIf you do like the game, please support by rating it. Thank you![/quote]\r\n\r\nThe developer tells his supporters to rate the game at AG. This requires AG registration and opens up the ability for comments. Isn't it safe to assume that long-term supporters signed up to AG just to add SUPER POSITIVE comments? So this wasn't a baseless belief. But there's nothing wrong against this kind of shameless self-promotion, just as there is nothing wrong with my observation that such members and comments exist.\r\n\r\n[i] Difficulty of the game, and its target niche. [/i]\r\n\r\nWhen the game came out, it was perceived by many as too difficult. This period lasted 4 days. The greatest part of my initial review had to do with exasperation through this original version. It's difficulty level was situated somewhere between the Normal and Insane levels because there was no REPLAY button.\r\n\r\n[quote] Oct 20 2009, 11:16 PM\r\nNew version has been uploaded. The major change is a feature to adjust game difficulty (Easy, Normal and Insane!) mode. Enjoy! [/quote]\r\n\r\nYet you were able [b]to finish all 45 original levels in less than 1 day[/b]. So how did you do it? With help. You had an [i]extra Tarot[/i]!\r\n\r\n[quote]\r\nOct 20 2009, 04:22 AM\r\nEternalLurker\r\n I do think Sisily is significantly underpowered...and her [b]Tarots[/b], while strong, are not generally as useful as the others'.\r\n\r\nOct 22 2009, 02:59 AM\r\nEternalLurker\r\nThere are [b]two Divine Breaths[/b] in the game. I don't remember where I got them but I definitely had two at the Tale Memory. (And all my potions. I had completely forgotten to use any items by that point in the game. D: )\r\n\r\nOct 22 2009, 03:05 AM\r\nAn\r\nThe second Divine Breath is actually rewarded [b]after the battle with the Lovers[b/] (along with a Golden Breath), Enternal Lurker. I don't think normal players will have access to it.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo the game was originally designed for 2 tarots, not 1, and the extra potions. This would explain why Sissy is so weak, she is complemented in her weakness by the second Tarot. Therefore, maybe making the game more difficult was done not to cater to an elite niche of players, like yourself, but to motivate the average player to donate to the developer, and receive the Lovers! \r\n\r\n[i]Do I think that you're an alt of the developer? [/i]\r\n\r\nNo. If you were an alt, and you forced me to guess who's alt you were. Then I would answer that you were an alt of someone on the development team, like Ricky the Fish, the chief beta tester and editor of the Guide. \r\n\r\nWhy wasn't RtF sac'd after you discovered all those bugs? Maybe he was too busy writing the Guide in preparation for the AG deadline, while the developer was too busy getting the final version processed to take time out for testing. Still, the team of testers has been very quiet.\r\n\r\nWhy didn't RtF protest your promotion to edit the sequel's Guide, after your AMAZING short-term recall detailing the paths to victory in battle 23 for both offensive and defense builds? Maybe he's too busy with other things to edit its sequel. \r\n\r\nBut that would be my guess, if I had to guess...or someone else on the team. And if you weren't on the team, then this would mean that you are a computer gaming programmer with lots of time on your hands, who's familiar with bug reports, and is an elite member of the RPG player's niche, yet somehow, even though the buzz was stirring from October 2008, had never heard of Ge.ne.sis until October 2009, because no one in your elite computer programming/RPG gaming world had ever mentioned it. Well, maybe you had no previous exposure to Ge.ne.sis, I suppose anything is possible. \r\n\r\nSo if you are an alt of someone on the development team, that's fine, if you're someone else entirely, then take the "not-a-guess" as a complement to your incredible abilities comprehending the game, memorizing the battles, and finding the bugs. You are surely at the top of your niche...minus the extra Tarot!\r\n\r\nLast thoughts for improvement: Make more tarots have the ability to influence other characters in similar ways like the Death Tarot --- AND release the sequel during a school break so people have more free time to invest.

offline

Ultimatum479

3 posts

Nomad

Posted October 30, '09 8:56am UTC

There is little point arguing with you if you're still convinced that I'm an alt of Ricky despite the two of us being present on the other forum. It's like an atheist trying to convince a religious fanatic: logic seems to fly right over your head. A couple notes about me to point out your ridiculous claims...
You say I offered to edit the strategy guide, but that's entirely untrue: An asked me and I accepted, as you know since you read the post, so you're flat-out lying...
The Lovers weren't in any way necessary for me to beat the game; I got them AFTER I was done with the game -- they were a free gift from An as thanks for helping out on the forum (much like my being made a mod, which would be even more stupid if I were a member of the development team)...Furthermore, while the Lovers are decent, I always prefer the Magician because Energy Transfer is almost as amazing as his aura, so it doesn't matter that I have them anyway...
And I'd never heard of Genesis until it came out because I don't look around for games other than checking the front pages of sites like ArmorGames, since I'm pretty damn lazy...

If you'd get over your idiotic obsession with believing that a game too hard for you could have a fanbase beyond its own development team, then maybe you'd realize that it's not just the in-battle tactics which are killing you but most likely party-building issues, hence your claim that starting positions are too "sharp". Both parts of Genesis are important, which is what makes it fun and opens up so many possibilities even on such fairly small maps (and yes, I could potentially agree with your suggestion of increased map sizes, but only if the number of enemies were increased accordingly, as the cramped feel of Genesis is what makes it challenging).

Furthermore, you didn't say initially that you thought people were joining up just to vote on the game. They probably are. That means they liked it. There's nothing wrong with that, so your claim that this is a problem is ridiculous. What you initially said was that they were alts and fake users, and that is wrong and unfounded. If you can't even be consistent with your own claims, I'm not going to bother responding here anymore. Give up on this stupid delusion that a challenging game can't have a cult fanbase if you want to have a civil discussion about the flaws and strengths of the game.

There is little point arguing with you if you're still convinced that I'm an alt of Ricky despite the two of us being present on the other forum. It's like an atheist trying to convince a religious fanatic: logic seems to fly right over your head. A couple notes about me to point out your ridiculous claims...\r\nYou say I offered to edit the strategy guide, but that's entirely untrue: An asked [i]me[/i] and I accepted, as you know since you read the post, so you're flat-out lying...\r\nThe Lovers weren't in any way necessary for me to beat the game; I got them AFTER I was done with the game -- they were a free gift from An as thanks for helping out on the forum (much like my being made a mod, which would be even more stupid if I were a member of the development team)...Furthermore, while the Lovers are decent, I always prefer the Magician because Energy Transfer is almost as amazing as his aura, so it doesn't matter that I have them anyway...\r\nAnd I'd never heard of Genesis until it came out because I don't look around for games other than checking the front pages of sites like ArmorGames, since I'm pretty damn lazy...\r\n\r\nIf you'd get over your idiotic obsession with believing that a game too hard for you could have a fanbase beyond its own development team, then maybe you'd realize that it's not just the in-battle tactics which are killing you but most likely party-building issues, hence your claim that starting positions are too "sharp". Both parts of Genesis are important, which is what makes it fun and opens up so many possibilities even on such fairly small maps (and yes, I could potentially agree with your suggestion of increased map sizes, but only if the number of enemies were increased accordingly, as the cramped feel of Genesis is what makes it challenging).\r\n\r\nFurthermore, you didn't say initially that you thought people were joining up just to vote on the game. They probably are. That means they liked it. There's nothing wrong with that, so your claim that this is a problem is ridiculous. What you initially said was that they were alts and fake users, and [i]that[/i] is wrong and unfounded. If you can't even be consistent with your own claims, I'm not going to bother responding here anymore. Give up on this stupid delusion that a challenging game can't have a cult fanbase if you want to have a civil discussion about the flaws and strengths of the game.

offline

Caberea

576 posts

Nomad

Posted October 30, '09 10:04am UTC

Look im anything but a noob on strategy games. Im number 1 at chess in my school and im only year 8. But even on easy i have trouble with cerberus. I think that my guys have their stats placed poorly for this fight but i dont want to have to start all over again. I just dont think that their should be an enemy regen. give them a heal ability fine. just dont make it so they regen 20percent every turn its way too hard. Oh and i found absolutely no difference between difficulty levels. I reached cerberus on each one and lost each time.

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Ultimatum479

3 posts

Nomad

Posted October 30, '09 10:25am UTC

Whaddaya mean about your characters having their "stats placed poorly for this fight"? What's troubling you about it as compared to the other fights? If it's the damage output from Cerberus attacking twice in a turn, try Soulbursting Death to halve that.

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yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 30, '09 7:35pm UTC

wrong and unfounded

Of course there are people joining AG just to vote on the game. This happens with all games. What DOESN'T happen with ALL games is that they have been distributed to 30 or more people starting a year prior to their AG debut. That the developer asked these 30 or more experienced players, to rate the game has been documented. There is no law against this type of recruiting process. But it DOES INTERFERE with the normal feedback of players NEW to the game.

There. Now as I've stated previously, I am on your side. I do think that at its center, Ge.ne.sis is a beautiful game that is flawed. It lacks FUN. I think that the sequel should focus on FUN before it adds the other things. So please ask yourself what is missing in Ge.ne.sis to make it more FUN?

How about restructuring according to the theme of the story? Why allow the player to see the total number of battles as a linear timeline on their first playthrough? Suppose that instead of 45 battles, this game had three story-dependent timelines of 15 battles. Adding a single node that connected each story-dependent branch with each other through transitional sidequests would have created 9 different storylines. A transitional sidequest would be a series of battles to allow a player to feel powerful, while linking one storyline into another so that the overall path made sense. You would just need to add a series of shared apocalyptic boss battles at the end to top it off. Here is a pic with 1 branch for each node, but there should be two as nodes would have connected to all timelines:

@Caberea - I think players could look at the Cerebrus battle as a prime example of why this game could be more FUN. The player has just defeated the Shadows, and is feeling pretty powerful. But the very next fight is totally unbeatable. How? It's just a slap in the face that Cerebrus is given two attacks, rendering this seemingly powerful party into nothing but chew toys for his amusement. \r\n\r\nSo I think that once the player increases a level, they should be able to feel the power, because FEELING POWERFUL IS FUN. After a jump, from shadows, the next battle should be kept on the same difficulty level as the previous battle, because it's satisfying to dominate what you had previously struggled to win.\r\n\r\n@Ultimatum479. Look, Caberea is an experienced player, and has complained that the HP regeneration is set on too steep of an incline and thinks it interferes with the enjoyment of the game. As a representative of the Ge.ne.sis team, you should consider Caberea's statement. If Cerebrus had a million HP, it wouldn't be as frustrating as 20% regeneration. This is because IT'S FUN TO MEASURE YOUR PROGRESS, and IT'S NOT FUN to have it taken away. I've noticed a similar thing about the game. I'm at the Gentle Giant Battle on Normal, and while I know this regeneration is a clue for a gang-up attack, it's still not FUN when it's so steep.\r\n\r\nCrampy cramp. The Giant battle is designed to be cramped, but I do hope your team is able to increase the area in general, and while I don't understand your logic behind increasing monster number, because such monsters such as the Skylord are tough enough alone, I do support your attempt to work on it. As long as you provide more opportunities for mobilization, then you would provide more opportunities for enjoyment. This is because the player should be given the chance to plan their initial attack while adjusting to the monsters' incoming movements. If the player gets into a hot spot during mid-battle, they should be able to move out, regroup, and attack again, etc. \r\n\r\nIn the current version, if your set-up formation was dependent on a recently lost character, then you'll lose the battle as there is no time to regroup. Set-ups can be as fragile as a house of cards. More area would allow the player to pullback and change the set-up. Increased mobility would also demand a strategical use of terrain (obstacles that should actually block attacks as well as movement), obviously, in order to do these things.\r\n\r\nBack to your comments. You seemed to misinterpret my remarks as inflammatory which wasn't their intent, and you misinterpreted others alltogether. I'm not one to delve into unpleasantries, as there is no resolving split issues once they've started. But one example is that the phrase "your promotion to" means a promotion that you received. This fact is recorded. Your response was not only mistaken, it also missed the point, but maybe that was your intention, I don't know. As a representative of the Ge.ne.sis team, you should consider to stop responding with those kinds of comments against players of the game. With that in mind, what I am about to write is not inflammatory, but an explanation:\r\n\r\n[quote]wrong and unfounded[/quote]\r\n\r\nOf course there are people joining AG just to vote on the game. This happens with all games. What DOESN'T happen with ALL games is that they have been distributed to 30 or more people starting a year prior to their AG debut. That the developer asked these 30 or more experienced players, to rate the game has been documented. There is no law against this type of recruiting process. But it DOES INTERFERE with the normal feedback of players NEW to the game.\r\n\r\nThere. Now as I've stated previously, I am on your side. I do think that at its center, Ge.ne.sis is a beautiful game that is flawed. It lacks FUN. I think that the sequel should focus on FUN before it adds the other things. So please ask yourself what is missing in Ge.ne.sis to make it more FUN? \r\n\r\nHow about restructuring according to the theme of the story? Why allow the player to see the total number of battles as a linear timeline on their first playthrough? Suppose that instead of 45 battles, this game had three story-dependent timelines of 15 battles. Adding a single node that connected each story-dependent branch with each other through transitional sidequests would have created 9 different storylines. A transitional sidequest would be a series of battles to allow a player to feel powerful, while linking one storyline into another so that the overall path made sense. You would just need to add a series of shared apocalyptic boss battles at the end to top it off. Here is a pic with 1 branch for each node, but there should be two as nodes would have connected to all timelines:\r\n\r\n[img]http://i35.tinypic.com/33xkbd4.jpg[/img]

offline

yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted November 1, '09 7:53am UTC

I have just beaten Tal Memory on Normal, along with the other battles, so I can say definately that the game is not too hard for me. I can also say that it is too sharp. I also think that it is too long.

So I've been thinking about more ways to make it more Fun, and just keep going over the photo above. It reminds me a lot about what happens at the devil/holy egg scene. But having just experienced this scene, I think it is far too contrived. These kinds of dialog boxes would allow a player to be cognizant of the changes in their path.

I think an improvement would be to hide the nodes, or at least some of them, anyway. Indirect decision-making could determine the player's path through non-battle related choices. For example, the code could rely on inventory items. Like, if Dragon's Breath is used before Battle 7, and if the player is on path A, then go to path C through sidequests delta, delta2, and delta3, etc.

I also noticed that Tale seemed to know my fighting style. I was in a bind, and the only way to survive was to castle with the High Priestess. I had expected that the Fool would block and I could do some healing. Instead, Tale hit me with his special attack, and I lost both The Fool and The High Priestess at once. So it seemed Tale responded to my battle activities. If this is so, then battle activities could be used like nodes as well.

I have just beaten Tal Memory on Normal, along with the other battles, so I can say definately that the game is not too hard for me. I can also say that it is too sharp. I also think that it is too long. \r\n\r\nSo I've been thinking about more ways to make it more Fun, and just keep going over the photo above. It reminds me a lot about what happens at the devil/holy egg scene. But having just experienced this scene, I think it is far too contrived. These kinds of dialog boxes would allow a player to be cognizant of the changes in their path.\r\n\r\nI think an improvement would be to hide the nodes, or at least some of them, anyway. Indirect decision-making could determine the player's path through non-battle related choices. For example, the code could rely on inventory items. Like, if Dragon's Breath is used before Battle 7, and if the player is on path A, then go to path C through sidequests delta, delta2, and delta3, etc.  \r\n\r\nI also noticed that Tale seemed to know my fighting style. I was in a bind, and the only way to survive was to castle with the High Priestess. I had expected that the Fool would block and I could do some healing. Instead, Tale hit me with his special attack, and I lost both The Fool and The High Priestess at once. So it seemed Tale responded to my battle activities. If this is so, then battle activities could be used like nodes as well.

offline

yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted November 1, '09 3:28pm UTC

I just wanted to add that the tutorial could be improved for the sequel. I think that the original from 2008 is MUCH better, so hopefully the sequel will have a more complete tutorial as well.

Also notice in the demo, how the character abilities are grouped by tier instead of circular. I wonder which was is better. Maybe circular because of its time theme.

Finally, I think that the battle sequences are smoother in the older demo, but their outcome is less predictable. So I wonder if there is a way to make a hybrid between the choppy one, and the fluid one.

Anyway, here is the link...I tried to be artistic with it. Did it work? Fingers crossed!

Demo Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis Demo

I just wanted to add that the tutorial could be improved for the sequel. I think that the original from 2008 is MUCH better, so hopefully the sequel will have a more complete tutorial as well. \r\n\r\nAlso notice in the demo, how the character abilities are grouped by tier instead of circular. I wonder which was is better. Maybe circular because of its time theme. \r\n\r\nFinally, I think that the battle sequences are smoother in the older demo, but their outcome is less predictable. So I wonder if there is a way to make a hybrid between the choppy one, and the fluid one. \r\n\r\nAnyway, here is the link...I tried to be artistic with it. Did it work? Fingers crossed! :D\r\n\r\n[b]Demo[/b] [url=http://www.snowangelmedia.com/www/play.php?id=523]Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis  Ge.ne.sis   Ge.ne.sis    Ge.ne.sis     Ge.ne.sis      Ge.ne.sis       Ge.ne.sis         Ge.ne.sis         Ge.ne.sis          Ge.ne.sis           Ge.ne.sis            Ge.ne.sis             Ge.ne.sis            Ge.ne.sis           Ge.ne.sis          Ge.ne.sis         Ge.ne.sis        Ge.ne.sis       Ge.ne.sis      Ge.ne.sis     Ge.ne.sis    Ge.ne.sis   Ge.ne.sis  Ge.ne.sis Ge.ne.sis[/url] Ge.ne.sis   Ge.ne.sis    Ge.ne.sis     Ge.ne.sis      Ge.ne.sis       Ge.ne.sis        Ge.ne.sis         Ge.ne.sis          Ge.ne.sis           Ge.ne.sis [b]Demo[/b]

offline

sac4123

2 posts

Nomad

Posted November 5, '09 8:03pm UTC

What if Tale never moves? I tried following the set up from the video, but there is nothing I can do if he keeps hurting everyone from far away

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Gantic

11,889 posts

King

Posted November 5, '09 8:46pm UTC

What if Tale never moves? I tried following the set up from the video, but there is nothing I can do if he keeps hurting everyone from far away

You're pretty much out of luck because it's a pain to have to reposition everyone outside of the bottleneck.

offline

sac4123

2 posts

Nomad

Posted November 5, '09 8:56pm UTC

Nevermind, figured out to use dark gravity right after paralyzing him to get into position.

offline

yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted November 6, '09 5:52pm UTC

Hi sac4123,

Tale is the sharpest battle in the entire game. So I'm going to list some things about Tale which you may already know, just to jot them down for anyone who plays this game in the future!

The first thing is that the following rules may need to be broken:

http://armorgames.com/misc/guides/genesis/

When planning a character build, it is important to aim for the AGILITY break point.

It is always better to initiate combat than waiting to be attacked, since the attacker can use 100% of his/her power.

Try to conjure tarots as soon as possible since you can take advantage of their Essence Perks.

When planning a character build, it is important to aim for the AGILITY break point.

If you've followed the AGILITY rule, then your characters have met the 18 point break giving them an extra turn of attack. Unfortunately, the extra turn comes at the cost of damage output, and will leave you in an energy deficit for Sissy and Gelly against Tale. If this is what you did, then you will need to go back and start again. With Nera on the other hand, you want MORE AGILITY. She takes 20 because the extra two points give her better dodge against Tale. If you stopped at the 18 breakpoint for Nera, you may also need to go back and start again.

One thing you should know about Nera is that there is a silent perk. It's hidden in her power distribution. At 10 power she unlocks a lo-level power perk, and when you equip it, you automatically boost her power to 13. This unlocks an upper-level power perk that turns on at 13, and grants 25% enemy defense reduction, so equip that.

If you then add 1 point to Nera's endurance and the rest into magic, then the endurance perk is unlocked. However, this endurance perk appears to be redundant to the hi-level power perk, reducing enemy defense by 25%, and if you equip that, you will lose power, shutting off the hi-level power perk. Do it anyway. Somehow the stats show that you've reduced the defenses by 50%! By the way, don't worry about the power loss. Moon Waltz will generate power as it is used. You can then initiate a Crystal Ballad attack at 40 power, fully regenerate HP for Nera if the Fool is present.

If there are minor variations in Nera's build that prevent Max Damage/Healing output, then you will need to break the other rules listed above. If you call every Tarot on your first turn, then you will drain the energy pool and Nera won't be able to follow up her MoonWaltz defense with a Crystal Ballad attack. If you also trust it's better to initiate an attack against Tale, then Nera won't have enough energy to MoonWaltz against Tale's counter for the next turn.

Finally, after losing to Tale many times over, or getting caught in a 40 minute loop unable to overcome its HP regen, then you may need to conclude that you have to repeat the game altogether, just to rebuild your characters without adding any points, perks, or potions. Take it from me, you can make it to the Sidequests on Normal, with the likely exception of Saber, even beating the Gangstabears and Death.

I once had a game slot saved at Cerberus 87%. It gave me the ability to experiment on these builds, and just as I had said on page 1, there is little flexibility. With the right builds, Cerberus is beaten in the middle of Sissy's turn, whereas slight variations render him unstoppable. The requirements are just too sharp in this first version, so hopefully the requirements are loosened up in the sequel!

Hi sac4123,\r\n\r\nTale is the sharpest battle in the entire game. So I'm going to list some things about Tale which you may already know, just to jot them down for anyone who plays this game in the future! :D \r\n\r\nThe first thing is that the following rules may need to be broken:\r\n\r\n[quote][url=Strategy Misguided ]http://armorgames.com/misc/guides/genesis/[/url]\r\n\r\nWhen planning a character build, it is important to aim for the AGILITY break point.\r\n\r\nIt is always better to  initiate combat than waiting to be attacked, since the attacker can use 100% of his/her power.\r\n\r\nTry to conjure tarots as soon as possible since you can take advantage of their Essence Perks.\r\n\r\nWhen planning a character build, it is important to aim for the AGILITY break point. [/quote]\r\n\r\nIf you've followed the AGILITY rule, then your characters have met the 18 point break giving them an extra turn of attack. Unfortunately, the extra turn comes at the cost of damage output, and will leave you in an energy deficit for Sissy and Gelly against Tale. If this is what you did, then you will need to go back and start again. With Nera on the other hand, you want MORE AGILITY. She takes 20 because the extra two points give her better dodge against Tale. If you stopped at the 18 breakpoint for Nera, you may also need to go back and start again.\r\n\r\nOne thing you should know about Nera is that there is a silent perk. It's hidden in her power distribution. At 10 power she unlocks a lo-level power perk, and when you equip it, you automatically boost her power to 13. This unlocks an upper-level power perk that turns on at 13, and grants 25% enemy defense reduction, so equip that. \r\n\r\nIf you then add 1 point to Nera's endurance and the rest into magic, then the endurance perk is unlocked. However, this endurance perk appears to be redundant to the hi-level power perk, reducing enemy defense by 25%, and if you equip that, you will lose power, shutting off the hi-level power perk. Do it anyway. Somehow the stats show that you've reduced the defenses by 50%! By the way, don't worry about the power loss. Moon Waltz will generate power as it is used. You can then initiate a Crystal Ballad attack at 40 power, fully regenerate HP for Nera if the Fool is present.\r\n\r\nIf there are minor variations in Nera's build that prevent Max Damage/Healing output, then you will need to break the other rules listed above. If you call every Tarot on your first turn, then you will drain the energy pool and Nera won't be able to follow up her MoonWaltz defense with a Crystal Ballad attack. If you also trust it's better to initiate an attack against Tale, then Nera won't have enough energy to MoonWaltz against Tale's counter for the next turn. \r\n\r\nFinally, after losing to Tale many times over, or getting caught in a 40 minute loop unable to overcome its HP regen, then you may need to conclude that you have to repeat the game altogether, just to rebuild your characters without adding any points, perks, or potions. Take it from me, you can make it to the Sidequests on Normal, with the likely exception of Saber, even beating the Gangstabears and Death. \r\n\r\nI once had a game slot saved at Cerberus 87%. It gave me the ability to experiment on these builds, and just as I had said on page 1, there is little flexibility. With the right builds, Cerberus is beaten in the middle of Sissy's turn, whereas slight variations render him unstoppable. The requirements are just too sharp in this first version, so hopefully the requirements are loosened up in the sequel! :D

offline

yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted November 7, '09 2:50am UTC

I just finished playing the last bits and the ending really symbolizes the central fault of the game. After all that time and thought, you finally beat the master Tale. How does the developer reward you? Fireworks? Parade with a fanfare of cool music? Perhaps the word Congratulations!!! with colored confetti dancing around the screen? Nope. Something even less exciting: you get nothing, that's right, nothing. Thanks for playing!

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thisisnotanalt

9,821 posts

Farmer

Posted November 7, '09 4:15am UTC

The goal of the game is to enjoy it, not beat it for the confetti at the end. I don't see how it's a flaw, especially considering the story arc of the game and the possibility of a part 2 or a full-blown sequel.

offline

yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted November 8, '09 12:17am UTC

Hi Alt. It's not really a flaw, I mean, you're right in a sense. I would have even agreed with you when I beat the Tale on the Easy level. But after experiencing how much more work was involved to beat Tale on Normal level, I changed my mind. To me, the Nothing-ending just represents the game's lack of effort to reward the player's hard work. Hopefully this will change, and we'll see a much more rewarding and amusing experience with the sequel!

By the way, I never mentioned this, but Ge.ne.sis is an interesting story. I didn't really care for it at first, because of the poor writing and dialog. But I think the theme of realities is cool! So far we've seen two, and a taste of a third: dream/psych/spirit, so maybe more we'll see some more realities in the next one. I wonder what they could be?

offline

yielee

618 posts

Shepherd

Posted November 8, '09 4:09am UTC

More BUGS.

1. A. I. and A. I. : Attack! text displayed on screen during the battles.

2. If Cerberus' knocks you out on his first attack, then you have to wait for him to go again, which may mean watching him attack a Tarot before you can use a menu, but what if the Tarot knocksout Cerberus?

3. Destroying the Beholder in the Extra Battle 2 before Tale, they monsters keep playing through their turn, so what if they knockout all your characters on their turn?

4. If two monsters are standing by Hanged Man's arctic call, one monster is hurt, but the other is totally healed.

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