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7432200
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7432200
134 posts
Nomad

The world has just had the worst economic collapse in 100 years. I personally think that after all the shit we went though we are finally on the other side. Who agrees!
P.S don't reply if you are just going to yell at me.

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German3945
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German3945
996 posts
Nomad

well it depends who you tell >_> if you tell someone who has to do that ^^ then ofcourse it is bad, but tell someone who is tremendously well off, then ofcourse the answer will be different.

Right, and since 85% of people aren't in poverty, definitely more than that can pay both food and medicine (probably 95%), so 1 out of every 20 people you see would agree it's not that bad.
woody_7007
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woody_7007
2,662 posts
Peasant

but if we can barely control privatized healthcare how do we expect not to see horrible corruption in public?


Have you ever considered that people operate in their own selfish interests will be more corrupt than a collective government scheme where there is no profit incentive to recommend needlessley expensive treatments?

Assuming you're not underemployed, you make 175 a week after taxes here. That's being heavily taxed under minimum wage. (30 hrs/week * 7.25 = 215, minus 15% tax = 185).
If you're going to use numbers, don't make them up, thankya.
So no, absolutely no employed workers with a check-issuing job makes less than 100/week here.


Plenty of people here in the UK make less than 100$ a week. It's not that uncommon at all. Even if we operate with your wage rate you still wouldn't have enough to save for an education scheme if you had rent, bills, mouths to feed.

Not in the sense of all jobs other than construction and services being office jobs. That's completely different.


No it's not different and the data is there.

Ten years ago, if you didn't know how to work modern technology you had little to no problem finding a job. We're talking about how lower class people aren't gaining enough social mobility nowadays because they don't have the qualifications for tertiary jobs.


Friendly advice, back up your claims, it may make me more inclined to believe you.



This shows that now more than ever in the past century in the US, you are more likely to die poor if you are born poor. Even in the early 60s part of the golden age of the 'american dream' the vast majority of people never moved social class.

I'm talking about how in the long run, when more of them notice this/are further convinced of this, there will be higher demand for technology education and therefore more technology education, and more of them will be able to go into those jobs and (probably) have more social mobility. Moreover, I'm talking about how they could do that right now in anticipation of and have better social mobility.


Just saying ''in the long run people will realise this and so be able to get jobs'' doesn't really work. If more people want the same courses, the price of the courses will go up. supply and demand mate.

Force people to go to school? That would hardly ever pass Congress.


Do you even understand the phrase 'at the point of delivery'? If you want to go on a course, you should be able to. That's what I'm suggesting.

well it depends who you tell >_> if you tell someone who has to do that ^^ then ofcourse it is bad, but tell someone who is tremendously well off, then ofcourse the answer will be different.


But that's the point. People who are very well off don't have to choose between the two.

Right, and since 85% of people aren't in poverty, definitely more than that can pay both food and medicine (probably 95%), so 1 out of every 20 people you see would agree it's not that bad.


That's like saying 'one in 20 KKK members doesn't thnk racial discrimination is bad'. Of course they don't, because it doesn't effect them. Tyranny of the majority isn't how democracy works. Just because the majority of people dsagree with something doesn't mean they are more right than the minority.
DDX
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DDX
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Nomad

Friendly advice, back up your claims, it may make me more inclined to believe you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mob ⦠_workforce

This shows that now more than ever in the past century in the US, you are more likely to die poor if you are born poor. Even in the early 60s part of the golden age of the 'american dream' the vast majority of people never moved social class.



Not to be a downer... but I dont think wikipedia counts as a source. The minute errors in there makes it an unreliable resource, otherwise Your arguments are solid.
woody_7007
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woody_7007
2,662 posts
Peasant

Check the links at the bottom if you dont believe them. Those are where wik get their information - peer reviewed studies:

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References

1. ^ Data from the Panel Study of Income Dynamics (PSID). (2006). Institute for Social Science Research, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
2. ^ a b c d e Grusky, D., & Manwai, C. (2008). Social Stratification: Class race and gender in sociological perspective. Westview Press.
3. ^ Kerbo, Harold. "Social Stratification and Inequality" (1996) pg 331-332 ISBN 0-07-034258
4. ^ [1] Jacobs, Sheila. "Trends in Women's Career Patterns and in Gender Occupational Mobility in Britain." Gender, Work, & Organization 6 (1999): 32-46. InterScience. Wiley. 19 Nov. 2008
5. ^ Blumenson, Eric; Eva S. Nilsen (2002-05-16). How to construct an underclass, or how the War on Drugs became a war on education (PDF). Drug Policy Forum of Massachusetts.
6. ^ Jo Blanden; Paul Gregg and Stephen Machin (April 2005). "Intergenerational Mobility in Europe and North America" (PDF). The Sutton Trust. http://www.suttontrust.com/reports/IntergenerationalMobility.pdf.
7. ^ Matthew Taylor (25 April 2005). "UK low in social mobility league, says charity". The Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/britain/article/0,2763,1469685,00.html.
8. ^ Michele Lamont; Virag Molnar (2002). "[users.fmg.uva.nl/jrath/educ/@Lamont_Molnar_Boundaries_ARS_2002.pdf the study of boundaries in the social sciences]" (PDF). users.fmg.uva.nl/jrath/educ/@Lamont_Molnar_Boundaries_ARS_2002.pdf.
9. ^ Kevin Lynch (1960), The Image of The City, The MIT Press
10. ^ a b Robert J. Sampson; Jeffery Morennoff and Thomas Gannon-Rowley (2002), Assessing Neighborhood Effects: Social Process and New Directions in Research, Annual Review of Sociology

* Stark, Rodney. 2007 Sociology Tenth Edition. Belmont, CA: Thomson Higher Education
* 2006 Social Mobility <http://www.sociologyguide.com/social-mobility/systems-of-mobility.php>
* Bertaux, Daniel and Thompson, Paul.1997 Pathways To Social Class. A Qualitative Approach To Social Mobility. Clarendon Press, Oxford
* Bourdieu, Pierre. 1984. Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste. London: Routledge.
* Borjas, George J. "Working Paper 12088." Making It in America: Social Mobility in the Immigrant Population. 2006. National Bureau of Economic Research. <http://www.nber.org/papers/w12088>.
* Devine, Fiona. Class Practices: How Parents Help Their Children Get Good Jobs. Cambridge University Press, 2004.
* Eitzen, D S."Upward Mobility Through Sport?."1 26 Sep. 2007 <http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/mar99eitzen.htm>.
* Francis, David R."'Upward Mobility' In Real Decline, Studies Charge." The Christian Science Monitor.27 Jan. 2003. 26 Sep. 2007 <http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0127/p21s01-coop.html>
* Goldthorpe, John H. 1987 Social Mobility and Class Structure in Modern Britain. New York: Oxford, Clarendon Press
* Jacobs, Eva E. (ed). "'Handbook of U.S. Labor Statistics: Employment, Earnings, Prices, Productivity, and other Labor Data.'" Lanham, MD. Bernam Press. 8th ed. 2005.
* Lareau, Annette. Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life. University of California Press, 2003.
* Maume, David J. "'Glass Ceilings and Glass Escalators: Occupational Segregation and Race and Sex Differences in Managerial Promotions.'" Work and Occupations vol. 26. November 1999: 483-509.
* McGuire, Gail M. "'Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and Networks: The Factors Affecting the Status of Employeesâ Network Members.'" Work and Occupations vol. 27. November 2000: 500-523.
* Western, Bruce. Punishment and Inequality in America. New York: Russell Sage Foundation, 2006.

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DDX
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DDX
3,562 posts
Nomad

Thing is, anyone can edit it, It doesnt matter as a secondary resource, it gives a wider range of error.

Heck, I am an avid editor of wikipedia, but that doesnt mean I dont make mistake, plus the occasional jerk will come in and change details in the slightest to throw off people who look at wikipedia and assume it is a reliable source.

woody_7007
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woody_7007
2,662 posts
Peasant

Heck, I am an avid editor of wikipedia, but that doesnt mean I dont make mistake, plus the occasional jerk will come in and change details in the slightest to throw off people who look at wikipedia and assume it is a reliable source.


Its not a good provider of detailed arguments, but for things like studies and facts its very reliable, simply because you can verify them by looking at other sites to confirm it. The studies cited in the article to indeed exist.
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