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DrCool1
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DrCool1
210 posts
Bard

Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.

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wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

The Christians simply don't know where to get their evidence, though there is plenty of it. You say the Bible isn't credible. But in reality, the Bible is one of the most accurate ancient texts in the world, in accordance to historical events


This is the fun part for me.

I read your arguement. Honestly I'm not going to pick at what's been picked at. Instead I'm going to take this little quote I have and apply one of my favourite subjects to it. History. And according to history the bible was word of mouth until...well 70-100 years after Jesus died. That leaves a ton of room for eorror. Furthermore, it wasn't until after 300 A.D when the up echelon of the Roman society got together and picked over 300 books in the bible to whittle it down to the ones we have today. Their criteria? Anything that claimed Jesus was the son of god. So that means over 200 books say he was a normal man...that's pretty convincing. Also, the bible has been trnaslated, we written, and editted over the mellenia that means it is one of the most INACCURATE books ever written.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

This so-called "debate" is simply getting out of hand. It seems to me that there are simply not enough Christians in the argument and way too many atheists.


You start losing so you cry foul huh?

90% of the world believes in higher beings. 10% don't. On ArmorGames it seems to be the other way around.


What's your point? Majority rule isn't an argument for validity.

just because YOU think a certain way about something does not mean it's true.


Your right it's not but you said that if we read the Bible we would see just how all that and some God is. I have, he wasn't. I honestly don't see how else to view things like mass genocide as being anything but bloodthirsty especially coming from a being is suppose to be perfect. Even if the people he did it to had it coming, this is God he could have easily come up with a better method of handling the problem then resorting to a base human answer to solve it.

And by the way, even if God has killed many, all of which deserved it


So all the first born children of Egypt deserved to die?

he has definitely created more lives than He's destroyed, else we wouldn't be here.


If God is responsible for the creation of all life then he is also responsible for all that life being finite, as such he is technically responsible for all death.
Anyway even without this let's look at an estimated death toll from this God.
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

That's 2,598,604 clearly stated with 24,711,379 being a possible likely over all total where the Bible doesn't give specific numbers. For comparison the vile and evil Satan is responsible for about 10 deaths, and even those he get's to share credit with God.

Oh and for added weight to thinking God is blood thirsty let's have a look at that Bible quote in that link.

"I kill ... I wound ... I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh."

^That's God talking.

Atheist would say that's because they have better evidence. That's a lie.


I've yet to see a Christian provide any evidence.

You say the Bible isn't credible.


Show me the evidence that supports the claim that God created everything, Show me the evidence that supports the claim that a Global flood accrued, Show me the evidence that supports the claim Jesus preformed miracles. What you have are claims with nothing to back them up.

but we also know that argument is simply stupid as such atheist beliefs as evolution and whatnot depend on way more astronomical chances being fulfilled.


What junk creationist do you get that from? We have self replicating molecules, those molecules don't replicate perfectly, Some of those imperfection to out to actually be useful and get passed on, you got evolution. How is that astronomical?

if they were written they probably wouldn't be around anymore, as it has been thousands of years.


If they're not around then it's not evidence supporting the claims.

He wasn't proving it to himself he was proving it to Satan.


What does an all powerful, all knowing being have to prove to anyone? For that matter why would such a supposed loving being allow death to make that point? Let's assume for the moment an all powerful all knowing God did have something to prove to an imperfect being he created (contradictory God on a number of points here). Couldn't he have just as easily said "Satan go ahead and do your worse so long as you don't kill anyone." rather then just specifying not to kill Job?

You're saying that god is omnipotent, but putting him up to human limits in some situations. That makes no sense in any way, shape or form.


To add to this for a being who is suppose to be so benevolent and loving he often doesn't even reach the levels of human compassion let alone that which would be expected from a perfect or at least near perfect being.

God is an all loving God; however, he is also jealous and just.


Not only does this support the idea of God being contradictive but also the idea of God being petty.

His wisdom will seen foolish in the eyes of men.


Or, it really is foolish.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Iron chariots defeated god? Wow, so much for omnipotence. If Satan just learns to drive a tank then the whole world would be better!

wajor59
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wajor59
909 posts
Nomad

For those of you who don't know, I'm more of a history geek than a science geek. Asherlee wants to see links, and I don't mind. It just means I can't be as active on this debate. Funny but it seems I only miss out on the non-debatable ramblings.

Ancient Iraq/Sumerian Religion , and this site on the epic of Gilgamesh.
Let me direct you attention to the first paragraph down to the last three full sentences to the city of Ninevah. This is the Ninevah that Jonah, a prophet of God in the old testament, refused to go to because it was a very wicked place. So this is how we get the story of Jonah and the Whale.
I just thought I would interject that and no, you don't have to read this summary. It does make reference to the Semitic language that I mentioned at least a dozen pages ago that Desert Eagle thought I meant Arabic. This narrative contrasts God of the Hebrews with the gods of Gilgamesh.

kingryan
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kingryan
4,196 posts
Farmer

The thing that you don't realise about the Bible being credible is that it isn't just a bunch of books, but a collections of books and letters which the Early Christian Church followed.

What I am saying is that the New Testament contains Paul's letters which were sent to various Churches - and if they weren't legitimate then they wouldn't still be around.

You see...the Bible wasn't even just books and letters, it was what the Early Church followed...and lived by.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

The thing that you don't realise about the Bible being credible is that it isn't just a bunch of books, but a collections of books and letters which the Early Christian Church followed.
What I am saying is that the New Testament contains Paul's letters which were sent to various Churches - and if they weren't legitimate then they wouldn't still be around.


Please see my brief history on the bible. Especially about the part where I state the Romans decided what went into the bible.
Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Shepherd

*history of the bible and some noncanical chapters coming soon*

kingryan
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kingryan
4,196 posts
Farmer

Especially about the part where I state the Romans decided what went into the bible.


I saw that. But regardless of what they chose to put in, they still lived by the stuff...and it is along those lines that can prove that Jesus did rise from the dead...
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

I saw that. But regardless of what they chose to put in, they still lived by the stuff...and it is along those lines that can prove that Jesus did rise from the dead...


The Romans filtered out all of the Bibles that didn't say Jesus was a normal man, leaving 200 which said he was a normal dude. Then, about 150-200 years later, emperors Constantine and Theodosius brought Christianity up to official status - Constantine made it legal, Theodosius made it required. Because the accurate Bibles were destroyed, even the Caesars only had access to the changed ones, and even though those were rewritten, they were rewritten from memory, which doesn't carry all that well over about 200 years.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I saw that. But regardless of what they chose to put in, they still lived by the stuff...and it is along those lines that can prove that Jesus did rise from the dead...


How does that prove anything? I've run into people who live there life by the ideals of the Federation in Star Trek, but it doesn't make the starship Enterprise real.
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

The Romans filtered out all of the Bibles that didn't say Jesus was a normal man, leaving 200 which said he was a normal dude. Then, about 150-200 years later, emperors Constantine and Theodosius brought Christianity up to official status - Constantine made it legal, Theodosius made it required. Because the accurate Bibles were destroyed, even the Caesars only had access to the changed ones, and even though those were rewritten, they were rewritten from memory, which doesn't carry all that well over about 200 years.


Although it's fairly obvious Christianity was used here as a tool to gain control of the Roman Empire I still find it interesting that the massive boom of Christians made it the best option to unify the peoples of Rome.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Although it's fairly obvious Christianity was used here as a tool to gain control of the Roman Empire I still find it interesting that the massive boom of Christians made it the best option to unify the peoples of Rome.


This is nothing new. Several leaders throughout history have found common beliefs in their people to rally them. Look at Hitler, in fact look at facism in general. That unified SEVERAL countries after the Great Depression because people wanted a strong leader, someone to believe in.
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

This is nothing new. Several leaders throughout history have found common beliefs in their people to rally them. Look at Hitler, in fact look at facism in general. That unified SEVERAL countries after the Great Depression because people wanted a strong leader, someone to believe in.


Right. I was just pointing out that although Christians were violently persecuted they still became the largest religious group in Rome. Just find it curious *implication*.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Constantine supposedly had some divine encounter that made him Chritian, and then the Christianizing of Rome took place.

wajor59
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wajor59
909 posts
Nomad

Right. I was just pointing out that although Christians were violently persecuted they still became the largest religious group in Rome. Just find it curious *implication*.


Samy, I applaud you for your perseverance in this thread that I only continue to comment on once a week, at best. People who have never accepted God into their heart will never accept the knowledge of God that we speak of. We are speaking a foreign language to them because they will only accept God in their minds. This isn't how the story of Jesus and Christianity as a faith based religion has survived these past couple of centuries. Proof is being found in remote places in caves where the early churches hid and worshiped God. The proof are scrolls, clay tablets, some are in fragments due to fires, earthquakes, Roman destruction or contact with air.
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