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Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things
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Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.
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Yeah still waiting for that knock on the door. If God really wants me to believe he exists he can come to my door and demonstrate to me he is who he says he is in a way that I can be reasonably sure I'm not hallucinating or being deceived.
Wajor said that God will show himself to those who dont ask...
1) "I revealed myself to those who did NOT ask for me; I was found by those who did NOT seek me.
To a nation that did NOT call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
So in this case alone.. Because your asking for him to show himself, he will not.
Also why would God show himself to you, out of everyone possible? You don't believe in him, or even want to try and open your mind to him. So even if he did show himself to you, your simple counter arguement would be that you were hallucinating, or that someone dressed up like God and went to your door, or that you had some bad food, causing you to not feel well and imagine something.
So God will significantly change the genetics of at least wolves, lions, and snakes huh?
im thinking sarcasm??? If not... Um basically those animals caused damages back then. Wolves would eat lambs, lions would attack ox, and snakes were considered scavengers and evil... Since dust is disgusting, i suppose it was a punishment.. As it was the snake that tempted adam and eve...
Ahh i see what you were talking about now wajor. Btw nice post
Yeah still waiting for that knock on the door. If God really wants me to believe he exists he can come to my door and demonstrate to me he is who he says he is in a way that I can be reasonably sure I'm not hallucinating or being deceived.
Ok, One:God doesn't just appear if you ask as Wajor said.
and Two:God doesn't show himself like you think he probably would.
@nonconformist
This mini-rant will adress your response to my wall of text.
Okay, the only point you managed to make was that me coming in halfway in the debate (hey I actually sorta skimmed over the debate I missed) somehow made my points irrelevent. However, my points still stand, as you have barely scratched them.
You've also proved to be a incorrigible little troll. Do you know how to debate, because most of your arguments are either insulting or weak? I'm sorry, but you won't be able to convince people to think like you if all you do is stomp your feet and troll around.
I'll just combat what little substance you've managed to give.
God realized that there was good in the world and Jesus saw it.
So God only began to realize the good in the world after his son sacrificed himself? Doesn't sound so omniscient after all >_>
...And that's it. Except for that prolific little quote, the rest of your response was spam and troll.
Its because its a belief system u ignorant twit
Why thank you. I'm feeling obliged to insert a few censored words here, but I'd rather not be a troll. I'll decline to contract your disease.
The fact is, becoming an athiest is the easiest possible solution to anything.
Atheists ask questions, and answer them to the best of their abilities, something that most Christians never do. What difficult things do you do anyway? How difficult could your life be?
You've also proved to be a incorrigible little troll. Do you know how to debate, because most of your arguments are either insulting or weak? I'm sorry, but you won't be able to convince people to think like you if all you do is stomp your feet and troll around.
I'll just combat what little substance you've managed to give.
Its extremely cute when athiests gather together and write on each others walls about someone trolling, and then another athiest decides to perk in and mention it. =P oops thats right i saw some cowardess. Really guys, im able to say what i think to your face, and yet people still decide to talk around about me behind my back.. And then i get to hear about it from someone else... Umm i guess pantaras song "walk" would be a great one for someone here =).. O and trust me, i will run around with my troll feet, considering its what you athiests have all done for 90 or so pages. =).
Okay, the only point you managed to make was that me coming in halfway in the debate (hey I actually sorta skimmed over the debate I missed) somehow made my points irrelevent. However, my points still stand, as you have barely scratched them.
actually none of your points stand there all bending, considering you got everything mixed up, and basically took everything i said wrong. They didn't make sense, which is why i ignored it and didn't make any comments about it what so ever. In other words it was spam.
So God only began to realize the good in the world after his son sacrificed himself? Doesn't sound so omniscient after all >_>
...And that's it. Except for that prolific little quote, the rest of your response was spam and troll.
XD the fact that everything else also loosely based off that quote, or had something to do out of the bible, i think someones just bashing. but its cool. Or are we still talking about what i said to you? cuz in all reality your whole post was spam, and it had nothing even remotely close to what i was talking about. So instead of trying to rumage through it and make sense, i just sluffed it off, and i aint really gonna waste time trying to argue about something confuzing...
and you found out almost all of them were evil...
Again this contradicts the whole omniscience of God.
Its funny how athiests think they can boss everyone around because they think there so amazing
Stereotype, and irrelevent.
It's actually because we think we're less ignorant than most Christians. We just have a storage of knowledge, logic and wisdom that we want to share. At least for me, I guess. Partly.
And your debating about my religion, so basically screw off guy
And you're living in the same world/reality as me, so yeah, go shove a larg-
AS I was saying...
Its a nice little circle we got going on here... You just decide to avoid an answer, and go straight into another attack. It doesn't show favoritism. And its lovely how you can say dont give me the free will tripe, yet all ive heard is justifying methods for like 5 pages. Dude ive told you already, and you just dodge the answers constantly, and then make up some other crap and then say i dont belong in this debate. Its going to constantly go on and on... its pathetic really
In case you haven't noticed, you've also been rather dodgy with your answers lately. Except in your case, trollish would be a better word. Seriously, 'ur a d'ck and ignoratn blah bla' isn't exactly a relevent counterargument.
Well i dont think you'd love someone who cheated on you, disobeyed you, and basically showed they hated you, and without any apologizing or repenting...
Would an all loving ruler make such an exaggeration out of such a small affair? And why didn't God wipe the slate, or essence, terminate mankind, then, as you also exclusively stated that he would do such a thing.
Stereotype, and irrelevent.
It's actually because we think we're less ignorant than most Christians. We just have a storage of knowledge, logic and wisdom that we want to share. At least for me, I guess. Partly.
Ok you guys want to share, its understandable. So do we christians i guess. But asking for us to become open minded when athiests aren't even trying to, is sorta hypocritical...
And you're living in the same world/reality as me, so yeah, go shove a larg-
Im hoping you were going to say a large popsicle into my mouth. Because the grape flavour is delicious =). And before you get angry at me, remember, you athiests are the ones who always start the "how can god even be real?" game. Its annoying and you guys gotta stop. We believe what we want, and we couldn't care what you think.
In case you haven't noticed, you've also been rather dodgy with your answers lately. Except in your case, trollish would be a better word. Seriously, 'ur a d'ck and ignoratn blah bla' isn't exactly a relevent counterargument.
Well except for the ur a d'ck stuff.. Just basically excuse those harmful words in the sentence... Then its basically what every athiest does to every christian arguement. Im just trying to see what it feels like to bounce an arguement off my shoulders, and continue on about something else. Very annoying huh.. And i dont just say your a d'ck... Im saying your a d'ck because your trashing my religion. Its not a counter arguement either.. Its a fact based on what you are doing. Next time use the full sentences. Cuz i can also say well you said this to me: ur a d'ck and ignoratn and now you also sound like a troll. Ight.
Would an all loving ruler make such an exaggeration out of such a small affair? And why didn't God wipe the slate, or essence, terminate mankind, then, as you also exclusively stated that he would do such a thing.
He did... with moses. He killed all evil, kept the good... Meh im not a great typer and words dont come out right, but Wajor basically summed everything up. but a small affair? Really if everyone was evil, i dont think thats a small affair...
O and trust me, i will run around with my troll feet, considering its what you athiests have all done for 90 or so pages. =).
We've debated. Intelligently and reasonably. On the other end of the spectrum....YOU
They didn't make sense, which is why i ignored it and didn't make any comments about it what so ever
Apart from the vehement flaming...
In other words it was spam.
Spam is repetitive and intentionally detrimental. Just hoping to clear some things up.
I actually made a decent effort, so yeah~
So God only began to realize the good in the world after his son sacrificed himself? Doesn't sound so omniscient after all >_>
...And that's it. Except for that prolific little quote, the rest of your response was spam and troll.
You know what? I'm just going to repost my response and hope that I can get an intelligible answer.
cuz in all reality your whole post was spam, and it had nothing even remotely close to what i was talking about
Refer to the basic definition of spam above. Spam is usually less than seven words, and usually demonstrates little effort. In fact, your comments are probably more spammy than mine, because I actually said something, and you just trolled around.
So instead of trying to rumage through it and make sense, i just sluffed it off, and i aint really gonna waste time trying to argue about something confuzing...
Maybe if you grew a brain and thought about it, it'd make more sense.
It's so disappointing how most of the Christian debaters (excluding Cen, samy, and....correct me if I'm missing someone, because I probably am) are so....lets just say, 'special'. In the, uh, less than gifted way.
Whoever invokes a blessing in the land will do so by the GOD of truth; he who takes an oath in the land will swear by the GOD of truth. For the past troubles will be forgotten and hidden from my eyes.
Yeah this really doesn't cover anything on that point. And this whole hidden and forgetting troubles seems like another example of how knowledge is look down on in the Bible.
I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."
Yeah this still just sounds like God being blood thirsty and I would still question such an act.
8) This is what the LORD says:
"As when juice is still found in a cluster of grapes and men say, 'Don't destroy it, there is yet some good in it,' so will I do in behalf of my servants; I will not destroy them all
Like I said how humane.
"Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.
Again knowledge bad.
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be thought accursed.
While this God is saying never again (sometime in the future) it does nothing for the justification of the past deeds.
Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"My servants will eat, but you will go hungry, my servants will drink, but you will go thirsty, my servants will rejoice, but you will be put to shame.
I'm still not clear what your trying to get across here. Is it slavery is okay if they are well treated?
15) You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.
Again what are you trying to get across here?
1) "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
I still don't see how that makes killing an innocent necessary.
Though there is a nice contradiction to the quoted verse.
Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
Guess Jesus should have said anything accept reveal himself.
5) who say,'Keep away; don't come near me, for I am too sacred for you!'
Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day."
Yet again how does this pertain to God preventing us from becoming more?
18) But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.
Still not seeing the justification here.
wajor you seem like a nice person but could you please think for yourself once in a while.
im thinking sarcasm??? If not... Um basically those animals caused damages back then. Wolves would eat lambs, lions would attack ox, and snakes were considered scavengers and evil... Since dust is disgusting, i suppose it was a punishment.. As it was the snake that tempted adam and eve.
They do so because they have to to live. for a lion to stop eating meat and start eating straw would require a significant change to that species.
Ok, One:God doesn't just appear if you ask as Wajor said.
I'm not asking here, I'm simply stating the conditions that Go d could meet if he wanted me to believe he exists.
and Two:God doesn't show himself like you think he probably would.
I'm not really putting a stipulation on how he manifests, it doesn't really matter. He could manifest as a giant talking taco that craps ice cream, as long as he can demonstrate that he really is God in a manner I can be reasonably sure that I'm not being tricked or just seeing things. That shouldn't be all that tall of an order for a supreme being who created everything.
But asking for us to become open minded when athiests aren't even trying to, is sorta hypocritical...
Depends on the perspective. Christians think Atheists are ignorant, and vice versa. In this sense, ignorance is always hypocritical.
And before you get angry at me, remember, you athiests are the ones who always start the "how can god even be real?" game.
After the dudes sometime in the DArk Ages started the "Lets assume that God is real!" game.
Its annoying and you guys gotta stop
Right after evangalists stop, and advocation for intelligent design in education stops, and so on and so forth.
Im just trying to see what it feels like to bounce an arguement off my shoulders, and continue on about something else.
In a cruddy anological sense, atheists bounce arguments off their shoulders. Christians sorta let arguments fall on the ground before walking away, or before stomping on the arguments.
As in like, atheists give, for the most part, somewhat structured logic and arguments, but I really can't understand the logic of most Christians.
Cuz i can also say well you said this to me: ur a d'ck and ignoratn and now you also sound like a troll. Ight.
Really.
but Wajor basically summed everything up
Urgh, I'll have to go back to the wall of text...
He did... with moses. He killed all evil, kept the good... Meh im not a great typer and words dont come out right, but Wajor basically summed everything up. but a small affair? Really if everyone was evil, i dont think thats a small affair...
And now we return to the question of: " Why would evil exist in the first place, if God was all mighty and all knowing, and essentially had the capability to create a perfect world without evil?"
Would an all loving ruler make such an exaggeration out of such a small affair? And why didn't God wipe the slate, or essence, terminate mankind, then, as you also exclusively stated that he would do such a thing.
So are you saying when Noah and his family were the only Christians at that time, and everyone else was evil (few million or so people that were evil) is a small ordeal?
And TECHNICALLY He did terminate mankind, except Noah, with the great flood.
I hope this makes since.
[quoteAnd now we return to the question of: " Why would evil exist in the first place, if God was all mighty and all knowing, and essentially had the capability to create a perfect world without evil?"[/quote]
He gave us free-will and the choice to decide for ourselves. and before you go on and ask "Then why does he let such people exist?"
Its GOD's choice to do what He wants. And he make these people in hope that someone will be a witness to them in their life so they will get on the right path.
PS: Sorry for double post to all you Mods who might read this or whatever.
Ok you guys want to share, its understandable. So do we christians i guess. But asking for us to become open minded when athiests aren't even trying to, is sorta hypocritical...
Then share, but if you say something that doesn't logically make an sense or claim something incredible to be true then expect to be called out on it.
Since I'm siding with Beast here on you being a troll, I'm making this point more for others who might think atheists are being closed minded just because we don't buy the story.
He gave us free-will and the choice to decide for ourselves. and before you go on and ask "Then why does he let such people exist?"
As I said this free will argument is tripe.
This still raises the question of why God wouldn't just instill a strong desire not to go against God. This would not be the removal of free will since we would still be free to commit evil, we would just not want to.
Its GOD's choice to do what He wants. And he make these people in hope that someone will be a witness to them in their life so they will get on the right path.
He makes bad people just to see if they will get on the correct path? This goes against God being all knowing for one, or God is intentionally allowing people to exist he knows will fails and punishing them for it. Seems down right mean considering what happens if they don't, and I question God's desires considering his seemingly clear atrocities.
As I said this free will argument is tripe.
This still raises the question of why God wouldn't just instill a strong desire not to go against God. This would not be the removal of free will since we would still be free to commit evil, we would just not want to.
Thats what he did with the angels. And Lucifer(Satan)tried to take over Heaven from God. So it seems theres always a way to do something evil.
He makes bad people just to see if they will get on the correct path? This goes against God being all knowing for one, or God is intentionally allowing people to exist he knows will fails and punishing them for it. Seems down right mean considering what happens if they don't, and I question God's desires considering his seemingly clear atrocities.
Well all of us aren't considering the fact of Satan, just like God he can speak to us (kind of like thoughts) and it influences us in ways. If Satan wasn't really there, there would still be sin. And something all of us, including myself, sometimes fail to remember God has a plan for all of us and sometimes we won't make sense of it and we're all just part of something bigger. And i know this is outta order but regarding God being all knowing, we make plans don't we for our future but there is always a small thing that can change it, its kinda like a crossroad. You know whats at the end of it but which one to take? God gave us a choice.
Again I hope this makes since. I'm not a very good speaker at times.
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