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Dragonz5
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Dragonz5
96 posts
Nomad

Where do you stand? Should America and her allies still be fighting over there? I would tend to think no, but i would like to know your opinions!

  • 53 Replies
delossantosj
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delossantosj
6,672 posts
Nomad

Africa


thats not cool gay people are cool sometimes.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

I never said anything about poverty or democracy. But you do see my point that it isn't about helping the country. I think we should though.


Well one justification for the current war that is used is that "we are spreading democracy", but considering the many other serious problems of the world that could be aided much more easily, this reasoning becomes pretty lame.

I really don't want the US to be involved in much more "help".

And yeah Africa has some serious issues with female circumcision , homosexuals and other harsh practices.
Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

We SHOULD be helping the whirlwind of terror going on in Africa.
Which, by extension, means we should have been in Iraq in the first place, just not now? If you think Africa should be aided, you surely believe Iraq should have been aided, correct?

Drace, you bring up a good point: These things are often done for the wrong reasons. That does not, however, mean they should never be done.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

In fact, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights called on the United States to shift its resources from war to "removing obstacles that prevent sufficient food from reaching those who need it."

I completely agree.

Millions are being barely being sustained in Afghanistan on international food aid. The bombing campaign has only slowed down the aid, and at times stopped it.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

If you think Africa should be aided, you surely believe Iraq should have been aided, correct?


There is a large difference between helping people by providing food and bombing countries that "harbor terrorists" as well as leading sanctions and blowing up hospitals.

Drace, you bring up a good point: These things are often done for the wrong reasons. That does not, however, mean they should never be done.


Which point are you talking about?

The war has been completely devastating, costly, and not at all beneficial.

The Afghans are against it, the Iraqis are against it and the majority of the United States citizens are against it.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Anyone else see an invasion of Iran soon?

naruto1657
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naruto1657
30 posts
Nomad

we are fighting afghanistan not iraq

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Anyone else see an invasion of Iran soon?


Cameron named them and China a nuclear threat in the UK leadership debates. Conservative politicians are the same the world over it seems.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

we are fighting afghanistan not iraq


You're in both buddy. I honestly see no reason to be over there, and being Canadian I see even less of a reason as to why Canada got involved. Propably because our Prime Minister is a push over.
Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Shepherd

wolf is right, we are in both.

But after reading several of everyone's posts in this topic. It has further shown me the way we receive our knowledge. The media gives out contradicting and selective news everyday. This means that we all really do not know much about what is happening the middle east unless we are there right this second and have eyes everywhere.

Think about the lies that are fed to us about war and the mistakes they make. Remember when they bombed something in Afghanistan not too long ago with such sure intell? Turned out to be a factory and they murdered people. oops...let's just not let bring that up again.

Or how it is readily accepted that Pearl Harbour was not a surprise attack.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

I find it ironic that the self proclaimed republic that is The United States of America censors so much of it's news in order to appear in a good light. Furthermore under the Bush administration an bill was passed with strpped citizens of many of their rights, when it first came out it was not approved. They changed the title to something more ambiguious and it was approved. I apologize for not rememebering the title.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

This means that we all really do not know much about what is happening the middle east unless we are there right this second and have eyes everywhere.


The US has actually tried to restrict information flow in the Middle East. They bombed the Al Jazeera offices and planned on bombing its headquarters.

A lot of things also go unreported.
This for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0&feature=player_embedded

Sources:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051212/scahill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_bombing_memo
wikileaks.org
Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Shepherd

Wolf, Drace, you guys see exactly what I am talking about.

We can sit here and debate back in forth, but in reality none of us have enough information (that is true) to make an informed argument.

adios194
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adios194
818 posts
Nomad

The Iraq doesn't exist, we aren't at war with them we are allies. We're leaving too.

lol, what makes you think this? We were supposed to, but Obama sent more to war. How are we allies?
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Other countries thought it was a pretty sweet idea, too.


Other than Blair who for some reason thought being Bush's poodle was fun, I really don't remember any other nations being madly keen on the idea. Don't forget the war didn't get UN backing in the end.

But I wonder why the US chooses the countries that just happen to have the largest reserves of oil...hmmm.


Not this BS again.

I think it'd be a good idea to check where the US actually gets its oil from. The amount imported by the US from the Middle East is only small portion of the total.

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/gene/peakoil/map_major_oil_move_567x366.gif
(This chart doesn't show domestic production.)

Note that the oil companies protested against the Iraq war. War is terrible for business, it is much more profitable to secure trade agreements. Anything that is happening now is a matter of circumstance and not proof of any oligarchic conspiracy to steal oil for rich white people.

That said, I am against the war. In light of the intelligence we had to go on from pretty dodgy sources, what is shameful is the amount of deception partaken in by Bush and Blair in convincing people and the mdeia that Iraq were actually a threat. Regardless of the outcome of the Kurds, Xzeno you're wrong. Actions aren't an ends in themselves. The reasons why countries go to war are always significant.
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