ForumsWEPRSwearing on the Bible in court

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DrCool1
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DrCool1
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Bard

In almost every court in the USA when people are called to the stand to make a statement they must put there hand on a Bible and swear not to lie. Yes there is a law in court where a person can be punished for lying or making false statements, but should the Bible be involved? Should people that do not believe in the Bible still have to swear on it? This should be an option but in most courts a person has to.

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MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

Actaully in massechusetts you could get kicked out if you were something else. i if i remember correctly JFK might of been teh first not protesant pres.


Firstly, that was AFTER the nation was founded so has no bearing on whether or not the US was intended as a Christian nation. Secondly, we have had many who weren't even Christian prior to JFK. These include George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Franklin Pierce, Abraham Lincoln, Rutherford B. Hayes, and Andrew Johnson. Not one of these men were even Christians, let alone protestants.
Dref14
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Dref14
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Nomad

"I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation."
Washington's Farewell to the Army, June 8th, 1783

GreatestSoloEver
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GreatestSoloEver
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Nomad

One Nation Under God


Although that doesn't state that people should swear on a Bible during court it does state our nation is under God. And since the #1 God-Associated Religion in America is Christianity it only makes sense that people should swear on a Bible during court. If you don't appreciate that then get the hell out of my country. Thank you.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

Yes, Washington believed in God. Big deal. He was a deist, not a Christian. They are very, very different.

Dref14
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Dref14
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Nomad

every damn thing i come across puts him under christian ( internet and book), tell me YOUR source

Caucheka
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Caucheka
440 posts
Nomad

Although that doesn't state that people should swear on a Bible during court it does state our nation is under God. And since the #1 God-Associated Religion in America is Christianity it only makes sense that people should swear on a Bible during court. If you don't appreciate that then get the hell out of my country. Thank you.


first off, its not your country, it belongs to all the people who are citizens here, be they christian, jewish, muslim, buddhist, atheist, or any of the other religions.

in fact One Nation Under God was added as a propoganda move to rally people against the "godless" commies.
GreatestSoloEver
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GreatestSoloEver
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Nomad

first off, its not your country, it belongs to all the people who are citizens here


Fuck that. It's my country.


Don't get offended so easy that last part was a joke. (:
MRWalker82
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Shepherd

Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative."


"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."
- letter to Edward Newenham, 1792


It's also important to point out that, as a freemason, Washington was by necessity very private about his beliefs which is why there is so much debate, especially from the Christians, about his faith. However the fact that he denied sacrement, never prostrated himself in the name of Jesus, and even refused to accompany his own wife to Christian ceremony indicates quite clearly that he was not a Christian.

"I do not believe that any degree of recollection will bring to my mind any fact which would prove General Washington to have been a believer in the Christian revelation further than as may be hoped from his constant attendance upon Christian worship, in connection with the general reserve of his character" ("Memoir of Bishop White," p. 193).
BeastMode10
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BeastMode10
374 posts
Nomad

What about the Establishment Clause - the separation of Church and State? Besides, swearing on the Bible is more conventional than effective.

Dref14
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Dref14
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Nomad

@ MRWalker, they first one. hitler was a christen, just beacause your are one doesnt mean you follow much on it, and it seems that you believe everyone of us is a fanatic of some lvl. im catholic, but you dont see me at church every sunday.
one the second one, i read that he just regrets religious war, dotn get much other that at imo.

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

The simple fact of the matter is that Washington NEVER claimed to be a Christian and repeatedly denied Christian sacrements, thus showing that he did not follow that doctrine. All he did was profess a belief in God. That alone does not make you a Christian, and to claim that he was one is simply the desires of the Christian right to have a champion for their cause where one does not exist.

Dref14
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Dref14
366 posts
Nomad

ill give you that there is no proof, although in a way it is likey. he believed in one of them and im to lazy to see if he mentioned Jesus, so he might be jewish. and never really heard of us needing a champion, but that would be your op

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

I would also like to point out, to those of you who still think America was founded as a Christian nation, Article XI of the US Treaty with Tripoli. This document was signed while John Adams, the chief author of our Constitution, was in office, and clearly states that the US is NOT a Christian nation.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


Also, for those of you who still question Washington's faith, let me offer you this:
Much of the myth of Washington's alleged Christianity came from Mason Weems influential book, "Life of Washington." The story of the cherry tree comes from this book and it has no historical basis. Weems, a Christian minister portrayed Washington as a devout Christian, yet Washington's own diaries show that he rarely attended Church.

Washington revealed almost nothing to indicate his spiritual frame of mind, hardly a mark of a devout Christian. In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears. He rarely spoke about his religion, but his Freemasonry experience points to a belief in deism. Washington's initiation occurred at the Fredericksburg Lodge on 4 November 1752, later becoming a Master mason in 1799, and remained a freemason until he died.

To the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789, Washington said that every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."

After Washington's death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington's religion replied, "Sir, Washington was a Deist."
- From 'EarlyAmerica.com'
Caucheka
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Caucheka
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Nomad

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/JungSU/Random/15367412.jpg

Avorne
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Avorne
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Nomad

Mr - I've tried it, they refuse to believe anything you show them that proves the USA isn't founded upon Christianity by Christians.

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