ForumsWEPRThe Sickness of Man

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wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

What have we become? Not we as in this community of individuals trying to escape our daily existences on a realm of possiblities, but we as in humans. We as in our race.

Many of you know me as the cynical one, the person aloof and abrasively offensive at times to anyone who crosses an unseen line of my tolerance for ignorance. You do not see the motives behind this. The motives are clear though. I see no purpose in life and to be ignorant is to deny the hope of purpose.

So, I ask you, my fellow man. What have we become? We have cast aside our profound beliefs that there is a greater power than us. Of course many follow a belief system, but what is that? Religion is a hollow shell to its former self. It has been replaced by amorality and ignorance. "Who cares what tomorrow brings?" the multitudes cry. Who cares indeed so long as we are ignorant. Many will argue that science gives us light and guidance. Yes, science gives us facts, but who dictates how we use those facts? Science gives no morality. And what do we gain from knowing everything? Nothing. We, as a race, are headed down the path of an amoral and stagnated existence. This dear friends is our sickness. Our disease.

  • 31 Replies
locoace3
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locoace3
15,053 posts
Nomad

awww this debate gave me a sad

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

awww this debate gave me a sad


It should have been easy to see, considering he is one of this forums atheists -_-. I just responded because the forums have been dead lately.
locoace3
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locoace3
15,053 posts
Nomad

and there dead again >.> *sigh* if only it were AG 3.0 by then AG will be a hub of activity

Efan
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Efan
3,086 posts
Nomad

I simply wanted to see opinions and thoughts of others.

have you read any thing useful? cause maybe you could post a compilation of the best comments.
BlackVortex
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BlackVortex
1,360 posts
Nomad

I see no purpose in life and to be ignorant is to deny the hope of purpose.


There is a purpose in life, just not a predetermined one by some sort of sky deity, you make your own purpose and destiny.

We have cast aside our profound beliefs that there is a greater power than us.


If only The majority are still delusional.
Blackwolves990
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Blackwolves990
331 posts
Shepherd

it's A Disease ???

Hypermnestra
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Hypermnestra
26,390 posts
Nomad

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you calling the advancement of science and the debunkment of religion a bad thing?

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Wait, did you really just say that? Early man didn't "share every scrap for survival". If anything, they probably killed one another for food, for they are savages. Unless it was their family, I'm extremely confident in saying that they didn't "share every scrap for survival". They didn't care about others, they were savages.

There are some native tribes even today where sharing is the norm; if one of them would eat something without offering bits of it to other people it would be an enormous offence. Of course cavemen may have had fights between tribes, but probably only between tribes and not between members of one group.
What you just wrote strongly reminds me of our modern society; eating your own food without sharing, making war for resources; putting substances into food to make better profit without caring about the toxic effect they have on customers..
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

I agree with the OP entirely. But because I've never been good at monologues I'll reply to a few posts.

We have become gods.


No, we have not become gods. We never will become gods, we are not immortal and our power is not timeless. You compare us to civilizations of old but what about the future of humanity? They will look back at us and scoff, they will consider themselves gods, yet they will die. We are human and in abandoning our belief in something above our selves we have become beasts.

What is the matter of casting aside ignorance? We left the untrue behind. We have started looking for the facts. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


Truth? You want truth? We are ignorant, we are blind, and above all we are no better than those before us. It doesn't matter how you search for truth because truth is relative to what we put our faith in, be it science or religion.

Hah! Under religion you have witch burning. Under religion you have sacrifice, human or otherwise. Under religion you have hate. Under religion you have death, death, and more death.


Under religion you have hope, you have love, you have a reason to be good, you have a reason to live. You can't see this, I doubt you ever will. There are those who use any means to gain power for themselves, in ancient times it was religion, now it is science. It may be used in a way science was not intended to be used but the same is true of the religions.

When has anyone ever cared for the multitude? They exist. They live. They help you live. They farm your food, build your defense, work for you and in turn you do so for them. True, many are ignorant. That can't be helped, as many are willfully so. But why must you follow them? Care for your future all you want.


Then you die alone, the multitude is what we are. Ignorance is believing that we are not one, it isn't until you see your own ignorance that you can help remedy the ignorance of others.

Everything. Science gives the ultimate morality, the morality of no necessity.


No, science exists only to give facts and to further itself. No morality is to be had, only knowledge. One cannot learn morality they must experience it, no amount of knowledge can change that.

Our morals, by western standard, are becoming better. I don't know what in hell you are referring to.


By a western standard? Fuck western standards, we have none. We don't give a damn about the poor, we pity them but what do we do? Do we attempt to educate them? Of course not what if they became smart enough to realize they're being oppressed? We allow them to live in our world but I fear that wont last much longer.

Actually I see this most often with the religious folk who believe that their savior is coming to wipe everything out and replace our world with something better.


Then they don't understand their own religion. Speaking from a Christian standpoint the bible gives instructions on what to do until Christ returns, that is to love and serve.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

You misunderstood. Whether it is religion or not we, as humans, need something more to believe in. We cannot continue down the path we have chose, science is not a healthy thing to believe in. Now, we all know I am an atheist, that won't change, but what person doesn't yearn for there to be something other than themself in this universe? Something more. We can claim that we are gods, but gods of what? What are we gods of? And what do we inspire except distrust and fear in our fellow man? You think morality can be constructed in a test tube. Ignorance. Morality comes from the heart and soul, not the mind. The mind can reason and justify why something is the way it is, but that means nothing. Hitler, Genghis Kahn, Napoleon, Julius Ceasar could justify their attrocities easily, but attrocities they remain.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

No, we have not become gods. We never will become gods, we are not immortal and our power is not timeless.


Neither were the Norse gods, ever hear of Regonarock?

You compare us to civilizations of old but what about the future of humanity? They will look back at us and scoff, they will consider themselves gods, yet they will die.


We would be gods to the people who came before us, not after. As was the invention of steel, gun powder, modern medicine, and every other improvement. The people of the future are bound to be as gods to us. Once again, by many definitions some gods die, namely the Norse. We do, just for the record, live significantly longer though.

We are human and in abandoning our belief in something above our selves we have become beasts.


Us, the beasts? We have the power to destroy any civilization we choose. Even without the negative side effects, our morals don't allow us to do so. If I were to give the technology to a Crusader he would not hesitate to make the middle east a big hole in the earth. They had a tone of faith, and were back further in time, but our morals are far superior.

Truth? You want truth? We are ignorant, we are blind, and above all we are no better than those before us.


We are intelligent. We can see. We are far superior morally then those who came before us. A quick glance of history would show anyone that.

It doesn't matter how you search for truth because truth is relative to what we put our faith in, be it science or religion.


The truth isn't relative. Science doesn't involve faith, as science by definition has evidence and faith by definition does not. If I biol water at a certain spot, then you come and biol water similar, they will biol at the same temperature no matter what you believe. When we die, our minds all shut down, no matter what you tell yourself. The world is the same for everyone.

Under religion you have hope, you have love, you have a reason to be good, you have a reason to live


Under religion you have false hope, hate (Of other races, religion, homosexuals, anyone who disagrees with your church), you have an excuse for being bad, you have a reason to die.

Under science we have hope for the future, creature comforts, and the ability to not get sick as often as people before us and eat on a daily bases. You know, things you take for granted.

There are those who use any means to gain power for themselves, in ancient times it was religion, now it is science.


Who has gained power threw science? Einstein ran away from Hitler, not being him... Science is a tool. A very potent tool. But it has never been a tool anyone has used to get to power.

It may be used in a way science was not intended to be used but the same is true of the religions.


Once again, science is only a tool. You are correct in saying that. I mean, I doubt the inventors of steel ever intended it to be used as space crafts, or the inventors of religion imagine suicide bombers. The difference is while science is a tool, religion is a disease. Religion actually has an effect on people's actions, while science can only provide conditions under witch you can think more clearly.

Then you die alone, the multitude is what we are. Ignorance is believing that we are not one, it isn't until you see your own ignorance that you can help remedy the ignorance of others.


The multitude, being the majority, is easy to get out of. Since it is unclear what the multitude is, here we are assuming the multitude is those who are ignorant. Just don't be ignorant and you are no longer in the multitude. And if you are going to try to treat others of there ignorance, remove both your ignorance and arrogance, as that is unlikely to happen.

No, science exists only to give facts and to further itself. No morality is to be had, only knowledge. One cannot learn morality they must experience it, no amount of knowledge can change that.


Did you even read the excerpt? The morality of no necessity. It is not necessary for us to raid for our food to feed our large numbers, to to science providing farm machines. It is no longer necessary to steal land, the land we currently have is able to be cared for effectively with sky scrappers and the like, so it is no longer necessary to annex land. You don't need to steal bread to survive, because science allows food to get to your aria from an aria were it is plentiful. Once we have a choice, the morals develop. You will never see a viking leader say " You know what? This raiding, pillaging, and raping isn't morally acceptable, we should go back to our icy home lands!" as they needed to raid as there own land was not fit for much farming.

Ill put it this way- without science, it is like three men in the room with one piece of bread. Your morals would probably say it is OK to kill the other two to be able to feed yourself. With science, however, it is the same scenario except there are three pieces of bread. Your moral choice then differs from there, but it is far less likely for those three to kill each other in the second scenario.

By a western standard? **** western standards, we have none.


Better than the standards of, say the Vikings.

We don't give a **** about the poor, we pity them but what do we do?


Give them food, water, change, and shelter, AKA more than any culture before us has done.

Do we attempt to educate them? Of course not what if they became smart enough to realize they're being oppressed?


Really, oppressed? By what, capitalism? Even then, we have the modern idea of communism witch doesn't have poor, socialism that can provide temporarily for the poor, and libraries/schools. The poor children can go to public school for free, the adults can educate themselves in libraries. If they wish so.

We allow them to live in our world but I fear that wont last much longer.


We have done way better than the people of history have... In most places, they would be slaves. In some places, they would even be eaten. Instead we provide a little food and water for them, which seems to me like a better alternative.

Then they don't understand their own religion. Speaking from a Christian standpoint the bible gives instructions on what to do until Christ returns, that is to love and serve.


And not marry- as they thought only XXX amount of virgin Jews would survive, and that it would be in there life time(of the writers)
Efan
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Efan
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Nomad

but what person doesn't yearn for there to be something other than themself in this universe? Something more.

you mean extraterrestrial sentient life? as wonderful as that would be we have to fix the problems back home.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

You misunderstood. Whether it is religion or not we, as humans, need something more to believe in. We cannot continue down the path we have chose, science is not a healthy thing to believe in.


Why not, may I ask? Atheists seem to be doing fine, and few people worship science... And as I have said, the path we have chosen is a good path, our morals have improved and are liable to continue improving.


but what person doesn't yearn for there to be something other than themself in this universe?


If I get what you are saying, I do. Why are you so afraid of your own morality that you need to replace it with a boss? Why do you want to be controlled that badly? I am fine being my own person.

Something more. We can claim that we are gods, but gods of what? What are we gods of?


How about gods of earth? You don't have to label yourself, you can just be a generic god if you want. We understand, thus we can control. You see how I am typing this? It is because we can control electricity, we have power over it. Because we understand it.

And what do we inspire except distrust and fear in our fellow man?


Many have inspired other humans. Einstein has inspired many scientists. Gandhi inspired several peace things, as with Martin Luther King J.R, I find a good amount of inspiration in some of the Greeks, and pretty much anyone who does there job well can be a source of inspiration.

You think morality can be constructed in a test tube. Ignorance. Morality comes from the heart and soul, not the mind.


Morality is opinionated. It depends on the person and situation. But if you are getting it from an imaginary part of you, or an organ that pumps blood, then I can see were your problem lies. It comes from the brain and culture, not the "heart and soul"

Hitler, Genghis Kahn, Napoleon, Julius Ceasar could justify their attrocities easily, but attrocities they remain.


The are only atrocities to YOUR morals, your modern western culture morals. To themselves they were all justified. There "heart and soul" told them they were in the clear. Your western culture influenced brain told you that they are atrocities.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
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Farmer

you mean extraterrestrial sentient life? as wonderful as that would be we have to fix the problems back home.


I mean something to guide us. To give us hope. We're merely children with lots of fun shiny toys to play with but no real direction on how.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

We are human and in abandoning our belief in something above our selves we have become beasts.


How does that make us beasts?

Truth? You want truth? We are ignorant, we are blind, and above all we are no better than those before us. It doesn't matter how you search for truth because truth is relative to what we put our faith in, be it science or religion.


Faith has no effect on what's true and what's not. Also faith has no place in science.

Under religion you have hope, you have love, you have a reason to be good, you have a reason to live.


You say this almost like these are things exclusive to religion. The last one seems almost contradictory in religion.

There are those who use any means to gain power for themselves, in ancient times it was religion, now it is science. It may be used in a way science was not intended to be used but the same is true of the religions.


Science is just a philosophical branch that has proven applications. There's nothing in it about it's intended use.

Then they don't understand their own religion. Speaking from a Christian standpoint the bible gives instructions on what to do until Christ returns, that is to love and serve.


You know very well this message is constantly contradicted in there.

We cannot continue down the path we have chose, science is not a healthy thing to believe in.


science doesn't require belief. We can accept what we find using science since it is supportable. How is that unhealthy?

And what do we inspire except distrust and fear in our fellow man?


We can inspire hope.

You think morality can be constructed in a test tube. Ignorance. Morality comes from the heart and soul, not the mind. The mind can reason and justify why something is the way it is, but that means nothing.


morality isn't something tangible, it's a subjective concept which we can use reason to arrive at.
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