Altruism is defined as "Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness." by 'thefreedictionary.com'.
I don't believe it exists. All supposed selfless acts occur as a result of much deliberation of another's circumstance. There must be hope for some gain however small.
True altruism, well, a behavior that gives an advantage to unrelated individuals while giving you a disadvantage
@Hahiha: I just put 1 example of "true altruism" in the post right before yours and whomever didn't read it. A dolphin saved the lives of two whales. There's no gene pool, no community. It just did it to be nice.
A dolphin saved the lives of two whales. There's no gene pool, no community. It just did it to be nice.
Survival. Dolphins and most species of whale actually tend to travel together, increasing their strength in numbers. Also, pygmy sperm whales are more solitary than dolphins, and typically slower although similarly sized. Were bottle nosed dolphins and pygmy sperm whales to be traveling together and come upon a predator the pygmy sperm whale would be the easier target, thus increasing the chances of the dolphins survival.
I was actually doing some research on it when you posted, but got distracted and never got back to you. Sorry for that.
@Hahiha: I just put 1 example of "true altruism" in the post right before yours and whomever didn't read it. A dolphin saved the lives of two whales. There's no gene pool, no community. It just did it to be nice.
I saw your post, I read it, and I found it very interesting, but I knew there was something behind it (there always is), especially between such similar animals like dolphins and whales. And Walker once more confirmed my conviction. Sorry if I have upset you in any way.
So altruism is ... when you help someone else, and gain nothing from it? Ofcourse it exists.. happen all the time :S If it doesn't mean that, can someone explain it to me in layman's terms xD
1 : unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others.
2 : behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to, or may be harmful to itself, but that benefits others of its species.
I posted that on the previous page, and I believe magegraywolf posted it earlier in this thread. And yes, it does happen quite often. All throughout the animal kingdom we find animals who live in a complex social structure where altruistic behavior is actually very beneficial to the species. We humans are no exception, and as we have seen, as our society becomes more entwined and the barriers between groups are lessened, altruistic behavior is not only more common, but more necessary for our survival.
I saw your post, I read it, and I found it very interesting, but I knew there was something behind it (there always is), especially between such similar animals like dolphins and whales. And Walker once more confirmed my conviction. Sorry if I have upset you in any way.
If you read Walker's post, you'd see he messed up. First he said IF the dolphins swim with whales, which doesn't have any proof. He was still researching it when he answered, cause he really doen'st know.
The Wiki on bottlenosed dolphins, says they sometimes swim with other dolphin species, which isn't the same thing. Also, he said, the pygmy whales are solitary swimmers. The bottom line is that pygmy whales don't swim with bottlenosed dolphins.
So what's left is two pygmy whales that swam in the shallows got stuck and were about to die. The dolphin risked its life to swim into the shallows where it could have got stuck and died itself.
The reward for saving the two pygmy whales is not greater than the cost of the dolphin's own life. That's why it's true altruism.
If you read Walker's post, you'd see he messed up. First he said IF the dolphins swim with whales, which doesn't have any proof. He was still researching it when he answered, cause he really doen'st know.
No, I said that dolphins tend to migrate and travel with others, such as pygmy whales, other dolphins, and even larger whales such as the humpback and other baleen type whales. Please do not try to take my remarks out of context. I was not researching it when I answered, I researched it after your post, but was sidetracked by other threads and forgot to make my reply.
Also, there was no risk to the dolphin, who was obviously aware of the environment and knew how to get into and out of the area where the whales were stranded without putting itself into danger, so that point is negated.
Also, as I said, the presence of similarly sized animals to the dolphin in the area would increase the dolphin's chance of survival by providing more opportunities to predators, reducing the chances of the dolphin being targeted as a food source.
The bottlenose dolphin sometimes forms mixed species groups with other species from the dolphin family, particularly larger species such as the Short-finned Pilot Whale, the False Killer Whale and Risso's Dolphin. They also interact with smaller species, such as the Atlantic Spotted Dolphin and the Rough-toothed Dolphin. While interactions with smaller species are sometimes affiliative, they can also be hostile.
So this is from Wiki and it just says they only travel with other dolphins. They also said they can defend from sharks. Your example is like the opposite of altruism, where they actually let some other whale get bit so they could get away. That's not what happens. What happens whenever a shark attacks is like this:
ANIMAL CORNER - The bottlenose dolphin is capable of defending itself by charging the predator: dolphin 'mobbing' behavior of sharks can occasionally prove fatal for the shark. Targeting a single adult dolphin can be dangerous for a shark of similar size.
And here's another example:
Occasionally, dolphins have rescued injured divers by raising them to the surface.
So dolphins are just nice. Besides, it did risk its life going into the shallows. Those shallows were the same ones that trapped the pygmy whales which are the same size, so obviously its life was at risk going in to save them.
So dolphins are just nice. Besides, it did risk its life going into the shallows. Those shallows were the same ones that trapped the pygmy whales which are the same size, so obviously its life was at risk going in to save them.
Dolphins have also been known to kill for fun. Particularly Bottlenose Dolphins have been know to do this.
So what can we agree to define 'true altruism' as in society? Is it helping another whilst receiving absolutely no benefits, including self-gratification? Or Is it helping another and being able to feel god about your actions?
So dolphins are just nice.
Does the fact that this may be an ingrained evolutionary response change the idea that this is altruism?
So what can we agree to define 'true altruism' as in society? Is it helping another whilst receiving absolutely no benefits, including self-gratification? Or Is it helping another and being able to feel god about your actions?
I'm following the dictionary here.
1: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others 2: behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species
Does the fact that this may be an ingrained evolutionary response change the idea that this is altruism?
I don't think so. I would say it being an ingrained evolutionary response explains the behavior.
