UNTHINKABLE is a movie. In this movie Samuel L. Jackson plays the part of an interrogator that uses the means of torture to get the information he requires out of the criminals. At the time of the movie there is a man who has planted nuclear weapons in large US cities. The interrogator will go to any length to get what he needs. He has this man in his custody. He subjects this man to many unthinkable tortures. At one point he has the man's children at his disposal and is going to make the man watch as he mutilates them.
My question is.... at this point in time.... is such an action justified? another actor in the movie makes the argument that "we are human beings and not wild animals"... "let the nukes go off... we should never stoop so low."
Is doing the Unthinkable thinkable? Or should such a thing be off limits?
Torturing children is always off-limits, and besides, every person has a breaking point be it a few seconds to a few days, the human body will probably go into a self-preservation mode, in which you would really have no control over what you say...
Torturing children is always off-limits, and besides, every person has a breaking point be it a few seconds to a few days, the human body will probably go into a self-preservation mode, in which you would really have no control over what you say...
i see your point of view... and sympathize with it greatly
have you watched the movie yet? ...what if you don't have an extended period of time... but a very limited few hours to get the information you need? ...either you do the unthinkable or thousands of other children will disintegrate along w/ everyone else around them.
While family is a viable option, children should always be off limits, how can we as humans call ourselves 'civilized' when we allow the torture of children?
You could say that but tourture has no rules, that's what makes it tourture.
the human body will probably go into a self-preservation mode, in which you would really have no control over what you say...
That is true but the terrorist might be so brainwashed that it becomes as Sonatavarius said "unthinkable" for him to give up the info.
have you watched the movie yet? ...what if you don't have an extended period of time... but a very limited few hours to get the information you need? ...either you do the unthinkable or thousands of other children will disintegrate along w/ everyone else around them.
Couldn't they evacuate everyone from the city? And the way you are using the word "unthinkable" is becoming more and more metaphorical then what it really means.
you tell me if its possible to evacuate new york city in just a few hours.... panic would cause terrible congestion on the roads but that's just a thought
and in the movie the man planted a total of about 3 bombs in a total of 3 cities.... the names of these cities was unknown. are you going to evacuate every city in the nation?
Sonatavarius, you're basically asking us to justify a Benthamy-Milly type of Utilitarianism. It is the idea that the moral worth of an action is determined solely by its usefulness in maximizing utility or minimizing negative utility (utility can be defined as pleasure, preference satisfaction, knowledge or other things) as summed among all sentient beings. It is thus a form of consequentialism, meaning that the moral worth of an action is determined by its outcome. The most influential contributors to this theory are considered to be Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill.
Basically, you want to max out the good, save the larger quantity of persons vs. the smaller.
Personally, Utilitarian ideas (in certain situations) seem very cold and senseless. You mass people together into one large group and toss away our individualism. Not to mention is almost impossible to calculate happiness on this kind of level.
In the case of the movie, I have not made my decision on the moral permissibility of each character's actions and intentions. I'm trying to figure out how you can truly justify slicing a woman's throat and then mutilating his children to HOPEFULLY save millions.
I was upset, but they should have brought a Muslim in to question him. They should have had psychoanalysts speaking to him. They didn't get inside his psyche until it was too late.
i've tried to play devil's advocate on both sides... i think i've put more of a bias towards the pro get the job done as opposed to pro humanity.
If i've done so then I'll correct that now. I sympathize with both.... and I agree with both. I don't know what I would do. there are those out there that advocate one side or the other w/o a second thought... i just wanted to see the different arguments.
I mean I will try and read the info you're citing when i have the time (my med phys teacher just told us to read Guyton Ch's 37-44 :'( )
the man did what he did b/c of his own convictions... his faith didn't command him to do so... it may have influenced him. i'm not sure that another muslim would've done anything... he would've only saw it as another ploy to make him crack.
he allowed himself to be caught... he did it with the intention of not saying anything or letting anyone have any information.
I've forgotten what his profession was... wasn't he trained military? or just a nuclear arms inspector?
granted maybe giving him a chemical that would make him babble might have done something... but i don't know anything about the whole "truth serum"
and in the movie the man planted a total of about 3 bombs in a total of 3 cities.... the names of these cities was unknown. are you going to evacuate every city in the nation?
You got a point there but I think the main char's way of getting him to talk was acceptable since if he was a terrorist he was brainwashed so much that it WOULD take something like that(in the movie's sake) for him to start talking, actualy you never said if he talked or not but since it had Samuel L. Jackson as the main char i'm assuming they did.
he cracks... but it leaves you thinking there's a 4th... and the movie ends there... (if there was a 4th then he would only have to own up to the three that he said existed... and he'd still win...
There are limits and then there are ways to make someone reach their limit. Torture is nothing new. It happens all the time. Some people torture for the hell of it, others for secretive information from sources etc. Humans are good ... very good at one thing... harming others, be it human or animal, object or place.
