Kevin, i'm curious, since you think that you are living in a creation of your own mind, what of current knowledge? Do you just already know it, or is it random gobblygook that you made up that sounds acceptable for now? Saying that everything is created by your mind, and then saying that you cannot create anything or change anything, is pretty conflicting. As for noetic science, I have to go with MRWalker, if everyone could alter reality, then things would be quite chaotic and constantly shifting, and this is just not the case.
I REALLY wish people would stop trying to use the word 'theorem'. So far I've only seen it used once correctly in this forum and that was in an instance where someone was correcting someone else. If you have to improperly use technical jargon to sound like you know what you are talking about you probably don't have a clue.
A theorems are based on previously proven statements, but is not fully proven itself. A theory is a statement that has been thoroughly checked, but not yet fully proven.
I suppose that could be a (highly unlikely) possibility, however if indeed you HAVE created such a world of your own volition then you would have the ability to alter it. If you are unable to do so then it is an extremely strong indicator that you are NOT the creator of such a world and are bound to a world which you do not have control over in such a manner.
Maybe my mind does not want me to be able to change it. Let's say someone told you to drink gasoline and your body said it shouldn't. You are the master of your body? So why can't you do it? Because of the restrictions that your own self has put on itself.
I cannot lift 300 pounds because I have set myself limitations and restrictions.
Kevin, i'm curious, since you think that you are living in a creation of your own mind, what of current knowledge? Do you just already know it, or is it random gobblygook that you made up that sounds acceptable for now? Saying that everything is created by your mind, and then saying that you cannot create anything or change anything, is pretty conflicting.
I am so glad you asked that. You see, I believe that my entire life has been planned out. All the information I receive is already known by me, subconsciously, but only waiting to be revealed.
I am saying that my mind created a world for me to live in. It has created rules, laws, restrictions, or whatever you want to call it, for me to live by. When I die, I may wake up from my "dream" and live a new life.
That air-tight tube test actually only occured in THE LOST SYMBOL.
My Comment:
I can believe in the idea of Noetic Science. Have you ever heard the phrase "XXX/It was in the air"? Is it really being affected by a mood, and what does that mean? Or is it joint thoughts, and emotions, which in turn can multiply itself and carry on to others? I read an article in a science journal about group thought and how only a small percentage of people are needed to change the group's movement. I have witnessed it myself: Both through household arguments, and at a camp I once was at, I saw a certain event occur: after just a few well known members of the group started asking eachother out, literally hundreds, many who did not know the original people, started to ask eachother out to dates. Was this peer presure??? NO. I knew many who said they felt it "in the air". Just from nowhere, a group thought can influence others and multiply throughout a crowd. Also mentioned in the article was stampedes. Panic was just IN THE AIR. group thought influencing individual thought unconsciously is a small step a way from physical manipulation. If the combined force of a group can manipulate thought, can a highly focused, trained, and devoted individual, actually impose unconscious feeling and decision making on others? could legendary figures, E.G. The Buddha, have gained "mind over matter" power? The real Nirvana? Figures of history, who accomplished amazing things? Wizards and such of lore, who could manipulate their world around them? if you need more material and backup for part of this, read up on group thought and the amazing books THE TIPPING POINT and BLINK.
Dont take my thoughts to seriously people, though, I am not believing I know everything. If you see any flaws in my theory, please make note of it.
A theorems are based on previously proven statements, but is not fully proven itself. A theory is a statement that has been thoroughly checked, but not yet fully proven.
Not even close. Nice effort though.
Maybe my mind does not want me to be able to change it. Let's say someone told you to drink gasoline and your body said it shouldn't. You are the master of your body? So why can't you do it? Because of the restrictions that your own self has put on itself.
Do really actually believe this baloney? Really? My body won't let me drink gasoline because of the chemistry of my digestive system along with the function of my cells. It has nothing to do with me being the master of my body or not. And honestly, no, we are NOT the masters of our bodies. Sure, we can control our locomotion, but that's pretty much it. Everything else is autonomous and immune to our best efforts at control.
Everything else is autonomous and immune to our best efforts at control.
Mmm, I disagree with this somewhat, you can control such things as the amount of air you need, or heartrate, and other such simple fuctions to an extent. You cannot, however, control what stomach acids your body is making to digest whatever it is you chose to eat :P
Forgive my double post, but let me elaborate here.
A theorems are based on previously proven statements, but is not fully proven itself. A theory is a statement that has been thoroughly checked, but not yet fully proven.
While your first part about theorems is 'technically' correct, you are forgetting that theorem ONLY applies to mathematics, yet you were using the term to apply to other fields of study, which is incorrect. Also, a 'theory', in science, is an explanation of an area of study, like gravity, which explains how the laws and facts pertaining to that subject work together. Also, a theory is the highest level of confidence one can have on a particular scientific study.
I can believe in the idea of Noetic Science. Have you ever heard the phrase "XXX/It was in the air"? Is it really being affected by a mood, and what does that mean? Or is it joint thoughts, and emotions, which in turn can multiply itself and carry on to others? I read an article in a science journal about group thought and how only a small percentage of people are needed to change the group's movement. I have witnessed it myself: Both through household arguments, and at a camp I once was at, I saw a certain event occur: after just a few well known members of the group started asking eachother out, literally hundreds, many who did not know the original people, started to ask eachother out to dates. Was this peer presure??? NO. I knew many who said they felt it "in the air". Just from nowhere, a group thought can influence others and multiply throughout a crowd. Also mentioned in the article was stampedes. Panic was just IN THE AIR. group thought influencing individual thought unconsciously is a small step a way from physical manipulation.
*Headesk* This is sociology. There is several possible explanations, one of them being peer pressure, jealousy, conformity, and many other reasons. It is not just because "They felt it in the air"
If the combined force of a group can manipulate thought, can a highly focused, trained, and devoted individual, actually impose unconscious feeling and decision making on others? could legendary figures, E.G. The Buddha, have gained "mind over matter" power? The real Nirvana? Figures of history, who accomplished amazing things? Wizards and such of lore, who could manipulate their world around them? if you need more material and backup for part of this, read up on group thought and the amazing books THE TIPPING POINT and BLINK.
Nope. Let me put it this way.
The U.S and it's allies have millions of people in it. Lets say 90% want someone they see as completely evil to kill himself, say an enemy like Sudan Husein. It sounds likely that all of us want him dead or captured, correct? So why haven't the millions of people influenced him any?
Dont take my thoughts to seriously people, though, I am not believing I know everything. If you see any flaws in my theory, please make note of it.
How about the fact that it is not based on reality?
Seriously, the only world were you would have "mind over matter" is in worlds that are only in your imagination, the closes I have heard to this would be lucid dreaming, which of course only happens when you are asleep, from my understanding you would be able to control events in said dream.
you can control such things as the amount of air you need, or heartrate, and other such simple fuctions to an extent.
With extensive practice and only for a very limited time, yes, there are some autonomous functions which we can temporarily gain control over, but we will never be in complete control of these for any length of time. I was merely illustrating that we are not masters of our minds or our bodies in any true sense of the idea of mastery. I apologize for not being a bit more detailed with my comment, I was trying to keep it brief.
Maybe my mind does not want me to be able to change it. Let's say someone told you to drink gasoline and your body said it shouldn't. You are the master of your body? So why can't you do it? Because of the restrictions that your own self has put on itself.
You can drink gasoline if you wanted to. And don't you control your "mind"? You haven't described what a "mind" is yet.
So why doesn't your mind help you out, if you are dieing? I would think having the ability to summon water when you are dehydrated or lifting a car to save your family would be useful, and I don't see why your mind would disagree.
I am so glad you asked that. You see, I believe that my entire life has been planned out. All the information I receive is already known by me, subconsciously, but only waiting to be revealed.
I am saying that my mind created a world for me to live in. It has created rules, laws, restrictions, or whatever you want to call it, for me to live by. When I die, I may wake up from my "dream" and live a new life.
HOLY **** ON A **** SANDWICH! This is one of the least truthful things I have ever heard. The Christians and the Muslims were thought what to believe, while you have succeed in deluding yourself into a baseless belief! Congratulations, you now officially don't care about the truth?
And may I ask what about all of us? Are we also just figments of your imagination, or do we all control our own worlds?
Do really actually believe this baloney? Really? My body won't let me drink gasoline because of the chemistry of my digestive system along with the function of my cells. It has nothing to do with me being the master of my body or not. And honestly, no, we are NOT the masters of our bodies. Sure, we can control our locomotion, but that's pretty much it. Everything else is autonomous and immune to our best efforts at control.
My point proven. Gasoline does not go along with my digestive system. Being able to lift 300 pounds does not go along with what my mind has planned out for me.
While your first part about theorems is 'technically' correct, you are forgetting that theorem ONLY applies to mathematics, yet you were using the term to apply to other fields of study, which is incorrect. Also, a 'theory', in science, is an explanation of an area of study, like gravity, which explains how the laws and facts pertaining to that subject work together. Also, a theory is the highest level of confidence one can have on a particular scientific study.
I said that he can understand theorems. What implies that I was talking about them in other fields of study? I am right. I said a theory is an statement, which can explain things (explanation), that is thoroughly checked by not yet proven.
You can drink gasoline if you wanted to. And don't you control your "mind"? You haven't described what a "mind" is yet.
So why doesn't your mind help you out, if you are dieing? I would think having the ability to summon water when you are dehydrated or lifting a car to save your family would be useful, and I don't see why your mind would disagree.
I can, but my thoughts restrict me from doing it.
Let me answer your question about what I perceive to be my mind. When you go to sleep, and you dream about things, your mind is creating a whole world. Can you do anything your mind wants? Yes, but are you in complete control about what you dream about? Could you be in a dream about going to school and getting a girl you really like? Yes. It has somewhat of a storyline. A plot. Does your mind think about things that do not go along with that plot while you are dreaming? No.
The same thing here. Imagine you are just in a dream. You are on a games forum and your username is 314d1.
Besides, think of it as if when you die, you are woken up from your dream.
HOLY **** ON A **** SANDWICH! This is one of the least truthful things I have ever heard. The Christians and the Muslims were thought what to believe, while you have succeed in deluding yourself into a baseless belief! Congratulations, you now officially don't care about the truth?
And may I ask what about all of us? Are we also just figments of your imagination, or do we all control our own worlds?
Well, since you have no proof that my belief is incorrect, then why make that conclusion?
I am merely saying, that for all I know, I am in a dream. All of you do not exist. I do not think for you, so how do you know you have a mind also? As far as I am concerned, you do not exist.
My point proven. Gasoline does not go along with my digestive system. Being able to lift 300 pounds does not go along with what my mind has planned out for me.
Then you are not in control of your mind, your mind is not in control of the world, or both. These are the only logical answers to the situation in which you are unable to perform seemingly impossible feats with sheer willpower.
I said that he can understand theorems. What implies that I was talking about them in other fields of study?
Umm... could be that we are discussing everything under the sun EXCEPT maths...
I can, but my thoughts restrict me from doing it.
So you can't. Gotcha. You see, if you could then you could. Simple as that. If something restricts you from doing something then you cannot do that thing. That's what being restricted in such a manner means.
I am merely saying, that for all I know, I am in a dream. All of you do not exist. I do not think for you, so how do you know you have a mind also? As far as I am concerned, you do not exist.
Great, so you are a solipsist. That basically makes any further conversation regarding reality a moot topic, as you don't accept reality.
My point proven. Gasoline does not go along with my digestive system. Being able to lift 300 pounds does not go along with what my mind has planned out for me.
But you control your mind. So why not control this?
I can, but my thoughts restrict me from doing it.
Let me answer your question about what I perceive to be my mind. When you go to sleep, and you dream about things, your mind is creating a whole world. Can you do anything your mind wants? Yes, but are you in complete control about what you dream about? Could you be in a dream about going to school and getting a girl you really like? Yes. It has somewhat of a storyline. A plot. Does your mind think about things that do not go along with that plot while you are dreaming? No.
The same thing here. Imagine you are just in a dream. You are on a games forum and your username is 314d1.
Besides, think of it as if when you die, you are woken up from your dream.
You do have control over your dream, theoretically. Once you know you are in a dream, you supposedly start lucid dreaming. Then you DO control your dreams. You are in this world, if your theory was correct then you would be lucid dreaming right now, meaning you have the ability to change it if you so wished.
Well, since you have no proof that my belief is incorrect, then why make that conclusion?
Because you have no proof that your belief IS correct. It is called the burden of proof.
I am merely saying, that for all I know, I am in a dream. All of you do not exist. I do not think for you, so how do you know you have a mind also? As far as I am concerned, you do not exist.
For all you know, you are a brain in Michal Jackson's closet. However my observation of the universe have thought me that I am a human being, living and breathing. You still haven't described what a mind is, so I am unable to state weather I have one or not. Are you observing me at this moment? If so, then I exist.
You do have control over your dream, theoretically. Once you know you are in a dream, you supposedly start lucid dreaming.
I've actually done this before, it's quite fun. I was able to fly and pass through solid objects. I could even rearrange my surroundings at will.
I am merely saying, that for all I know, I am in a dream. All of you do not exist. I do not think for you, so how do you know you have a mind also? As far as I am concerned, you do not exist.
If we are just products of your mind then you are thinking for us. If everything is a product of your mind then we do exist in the same context as everything else does.
I've actually done this before, it's quite fun. I was able to fly and pass through solid objects. I could even rearrange my surroundings at will.
Interesting. I read about them in psychology class, then the wiki on them, though never have experienced one myself. The idea of having an entire universe to control intrigued me, and though there are ways that are supposed to increase the likely hood of it, but still never tried it myself.
If we are just products of your mind then you are thinking for us. If everything is a product of your mind then we do exist in the same context as everything else does.
I also forgot to add, how do you know you are not a figment of one of our imaginations? Just one of our dreams? Why are you so important that the dream is owned by you?
I've actually done this before, it's quite fun. I was able to fly and pass through solid objects. I could even rearrange my surroundings at will. Interesting. I read about them in psychology class, then the wiki on them, though never have experienced one myself. The idea of having an entire universe to control intrigued me, and though there are ways that are supposed to increase the likely hood of it, but still never tried it myself.
Really? I've never had any dream but those types, I normally let them just play themselves out, but sometimes I go back and change how things happen if I don't like how it turns out :P
