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Forums → WEPR → Mormonism
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I'm starting this topic to "continue" a conversation started in the Christians vs. Catholics thread. I will include some of the details from there, but the rest are up to anyone new to read up on. I will specifically post the contents of one post, more or less.
We did not baptize Adolf Hitler. That is a lie. After people baptized for Obama's mother, an official release was sent out saying that unless you specifically know the person who's name you are bringing in to do temple work for (not the names that they already have) or they are in your family, you cannot do temple work for them.
We are not barred from being around ex Mormons. We do not necessarily believe they are with Satan. We excommunicate people for their good. In our views, it gives them a second chance. They can rejoin the church later, and their sins will be gone, just as they were when they were first baptized. I know many ex Mormons, and I do not get in trouble for being with them.
South Park is in no way an authority on anything. The fact that you're trying to cite that is pathetic.
Yes, there was polygamy. But it was revoked in the 1890's (even if only for legal reasons). Joseph Smith did not try to burn down a newspaper place. He was taken to jail for no real reason. If he shot back, it was only because they were shooting at him.
The reason non members are not allowed in the temple is because of the sacred things that go on in there. If just anyone was allowed in, the spirit would be disrupted. I will expound on this if needs be.
I am personally ashamed of the acts of other Latter-Day Saints who have done temple work for people without permission from relatives of that person. It is wrong, and we know it.
Tithing... It was actually in Christ's day when it started. The only reason it affects our worthiness to enter the temple (not our standing in general). The Lord gave us everything we have, and all he asks is 10% of what we earn. I'd say that's a pretty small price for life, liberty, and happiness.
Also, we believe in Agency and Accountability. You can choose to do what you want, but you will have to accept the consequences.
I have a testimony of Jesus Christ. He is my savior and my redeemer. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas S. Monson is the living prophet today. I believe the Bible to be true as far as it is correctly translated. I know that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be forgiven for our sins and return to live with our Heavenly Father. I have seen the Atonement in action in my life. I know that God listens to all prayers to him. He answers them in his own way. I know that I can make it to the Celestial Kingdom if I but do my best to keep the commandments of God.
- 428 Replies
I am using this to turn something he said on himself. I of course could try to get my teacher to get on and say "Yo Wazzup" but chances are he won't, that doesn't mean he doesn't exist.
wat?
There is more than a backyard to look, the universe is big or infinitely large to us, a person can only look so far before not being able to look anymore, perhaps I beg my teacher to get on and show you, he might be stubborn, I can only do so many things in this lifetime of mine to try and get him to come on and prove he exists, but that doesn't mean he doesn't exist
If you can't suggest that God interacts with a system, then He cannot be said to be part of that system.
Atheism isn't a religion, unless bald is a haircut. Care to name one then?
Actually the saying is "atheism is as much of a religion as bald is a hair color". Or my personal favorite "atheism is a religion like how not collecting stamps is a hobby".
Build up your argument a little - define faith, and show that, by definition, it is innately irrational.
I did define faith "belief with out proof". I agree believing without proof is irrational as it lacks reason.
If your mom told you she would make you cookies, how can it be proven she will in the future, you have to have faith.
No we don't if in the past she said she would and she did we would have reason to believe she will do so again. If she has said she would be hasn't in the past we would have no reason to think she will this time. If we have no past experience, we have nothing to go on thus we have no reason to believe she will and we reserve judgment until we see what she does.
With the situation with God not only do we not know if this "mom" exists let only if she will bake us cookies or not.
There is no way to prove that every little spec in the universe was created by a diety, but there isn't a way to prove it wasn't, so no belief can be proven 100% making all beliefs false? I highly doubt it.
Only religion (and the Sith) deal in absolutes.
Meh screw this... What i'm saying is you can't prove that something exists or not without assuming or having faith like Einfach said. Good night XO (and don't pull anything stupid like "you're leaving cause you know your wrong!" or something like that... I have school tomorrow and am tired!!!)
I am using this to turn something he said on himself. I of course could try to get my teacher to get on and say "Yo Wazzup" but chances are he won't, that doesn't mean he doesn't exist.
Or I could observe your teacher, proving he exists. This should be easy if he cared deeply about you and would be forced to kill me if I didn't believe he existed. It would be logical to assume that, if I can touch him, see him, and generally observe him, then that is acceptable proof he existed.
There is more than a backyard to look, the universe is big or infinitely large to us, a person can only look so far before not being able to look anymore, perhaps I beg my teacher to get on and show you, he might be stubborn, I can only do so many things in this lifetime of mine to try and get him to come on and prove he exists, but that doesn't mean he doesn't exist
But if you add "My teacher exists, and he is in that room over there" on top of all the other descriptions of your god, then I could look in ONLY the room and prove that you were wrong.
Only religion (and the Sith) deal in absolutes.
NOT true. I'm in no way relativist, but I'm not religious or Sith-like (I think...).
I did define faith "belief with out proof".
How do you define faith? I say it's better to let the theist define it.
No we don't if in the past she said she would and she did we would have reason to believe she will do so again.
A religion can't be proven wrong if it's belief is in the future (life after death and all that) is what I kinda mean
(and the Sith)
I was to tired to read all of your post (sorry) but I do wanna say before I go, what an amazing refrence (Star Wars FTW!!!)
But if you add "My teacher exists, and he is in that room over there" on top of all the other descriptions of your god, then I could look in ONLY the room and prove that you were wrong.
This is why I hate it when people contradict my religion. My teacher doesn't care to much about me or you guys and won't get on, which is the "gap" in me talking about him, I can't prove to you guys (most likely) unless you were there physically you could acuse me of grabing some random pic or dude I know (Now I'm seriously going to sleep)
prove that something exists or not without assuming or having faith like Einfach said
A little typo here - you meant "rove that something exists without assuming like Einfach said. You have to have faith." right?
But this argument is self-contradicting. Because if you follow only logic, then God cannot be proven without an assumption, and if the assumptions are not self-explanatory or tautological, then He cannot be proven. If He cannot be proven, you cannot demand "faith."
Or I could observe your teacher, proving he exists
Underlying assumption - perception is reality.
oh but the thing I need to add quick it that I am glad you guys don't assume I am leaving or making up stuff because I think I was proven wrong ( alot of my arguments end up like that)
oh but the thing I need to add quick it that I am glad you guys don't assume I am leaving or making up stuff because I think I was proven wrong ( alot of my arguments end up like that)
My perscription - 30 minutes of WEPR per day for the next 3 weeks, and you should be cured of this tongue tied-ness and inability to express your ideas. It's magical... Who knows - you might learn a thing or two!
But this argument is self-contradicting. Because if you follow only logic, then God cannot be proven without an assumption, and if the assumptions are not self-explanatory or tautological, then He cannot be proven. If He cannot be proven, you cannot demand "faith."
Thank You
A little typo here - you meant "rove that something exists without assuming like Einfach said. You have to have faith." right?
I meant that you also can't prove something Doesn't exist likewise with proving that it does exist
Oh for pete's sake Good Night XD
Wait Wait Wait wait wait...
That was my 400th post ^ :P
Congratz and... That was a pretty awesome 400th post, mine was probrably some emo post way back in 8th grade when I was going through a "changing time" lol
NOW good night :P
I agree meaning those who beleive it not to be true will believe in something else, mabey like... a religion :P
not at all If you said you had a ball and I said prove it and you pulled out a ball, then it would be quite reasonable to believe you had a ball. If you claim there is a deity and when asked to prove it you just say "well you just have to believe, and you can't prove he doesn't exist" We have no reason to believe you.
There is more than a backyard to look, the universe is big or infinitely large to us, a person can only look so far before not being able to look anymore, perhaps I beg my teacher to get on and show you, he might be stubborn, I can only do so many things in this lifetime of mine to try and get him to come on and prove he exists, but that doesn't mean he doesn't exist
One of the claims of this deity is that he is omnipresent, so it should take no more then just looking in your back yard to find him.
(well, what do you guys think about people claiming to have "spiritual experiences"?)
Personal experience isn't evidence and can be highly fallible. In other words they nor us have any reason to believe what they experienced was at all accurately gauged.
What i'm saying is you can't prove that something exists or not without assuming or having faith
Yes you can just as in the example of the ball. You say there is a ball and pull a ball out then I can believe without faith that you have a ball.
A religion can't be proven wrong if it's belief is in the future (life after death and all that) is what I kinda mean
Many claim of a religion aren't all rooted in the future, For example a global flood or the Earth being created in 7 days. These claims can be tested and nearly every one get's debunked.
I was to tired to read all of your post (sorry) but I do wanna say before I go, what an amazing refrence (Star Wars FTW!!!)
Least we can have that much in common.
This is why I hate it when people contradict my religion. My teacher doesn't care to much about me or you guys and won't get on, which is the "gap" in me talking about him, I can't prove to you guys (most likely) unless you were there physically you could acuse me of grabing some random pic or dude I know (Now I'm seriously going to sleep)
Again with past experience, we know teachers exist and many people have teachers, so we do have evidence to go on to believe your assertion. The claim isn't that incredible. However the claim that an all powerful being created everything or at least most of it, is quite an incredible claim and we have no previous evidence of this being the case to refer back to. So to believe God exists we would require much more then just someone saying he does.
Underlying assumption - perception is reality.
Which is why we don't trust our perception 100%.
I meant that you also can't prove something Doesn't exist likewise with proving that it does exist
You can't prove something doesn't exist, you can only prove existence.
James Randi Lecture @ Caltech - Cant Prove a Negative
Personal experience isn't evidence and can be highly fallible. In other words they nor us have any reason to believe what they experienced was at all accurately gauged.
Oh, if only Moegreche is here - he even says in his profile this is his area of specialty...
Let me attempt to fill this void that we have right here by posing a question: If we cannot trust our personal experiences, how do we know that we know anything?
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