Forums → WEPR → Mormonism
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I'm starting this topic to "continue" a conversation started in the Christians vs. Catholics thread. I will include some of the details from there, but the rest are up to anyone new to read up on. I will specifically post the contents of one post, more or less.
We did not baptize Adolf Hitler. That is a lie. After people baptized for Obama's mother, an official release was sent out saying that unless you specifically know the person who's name you are bringing in to do temple work for (not the names that they already have) or they are in your family, you cannot do temple work for them.
We are not barred from being around ex Mormons. We do not necessarily believe they are with Satan. We excommunicate people for their good. In our views, it gives them a second chance. They can rejoin the church later, and their sins will be gone, just as they were when they were first baptized. I know many ex Mormons, and I do not get in trouble for being with them.
South Park is in no way an authority on anything. The fact that you're trying to cite that is pathetic.
Yes, there was polygamy. But it was revoked in the 1890's (even if only for legal reasons). Joseph Smith did not try to burn down a newspaper place. He was taken to jail for no real reason. If he shot back, it was only because they were shooting at him.
The reason non members are not allowed in the temple is because of the sacred things that go on in there. If just anyone was allowed in, the spirit would be disrupted. I will expound on this if needs be.
I am personally ashamed of the acts of other Latter-Day Saints who have done temple work for people without permission from relatives of that person. It is wrong, and we know it.
Tithing... It was actually in Christ's day when it started. The only reason it affects our worthiness to enter the temple (not our standing in general). The Lord gave us everything we have, and all he asks is 10% of what we earn. I'd say that's a pretty small price for life, liberty, and happiness.
Also, we believe in Agency and Accountability. You can choose to do what you want, but you will have to accept the consequences.
I have a testimony of Jesus Christ. He is my savior and my redeemer. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas S. Monson is the living prophet today. I believe the Bible to be true as far as it is correctly translated. I know that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be forgiven for our sins and return to live with our Heavenly Father. I have seen the Atonement in action in my life. I know that God listens to all prayers to him. He answers them in his own way. I know that I can make it to the Celestial Kingdom if I but do my best to keep the commandments of God.
- 428 Replies
But this thread is to discuss the mormon church, not to **** it in the face, and tell everybody you hate it's sorry guts. You don't see us hating your religion. There isn't a 'I hate catholics' or 'Baptists are stupid' thread anywhere around here. And why do you feel you have to be so negative towards what I love and care for? I have no vendetta towards you.
Side-note. I didn't know that that word would be censored. It wasn't a curse word.
Why can't you just be happy to have your morals and ethics and not try and push them on other people? Stop trying to spread your opinions to other people (let them seek you), get over your silly little persecution complex and stop taking religion so seriously - being willing to die for something so trivial only makes me think that you're brainwashed into believing in it.
Well to you it may be trivial, but to me, it's not. And again, what happened to discussing the Mormon religion? It's turned into 'lets slander everything we can about them'. I'm not doing this to you and your agnostic beliefs.
How am I slandering you? I'm merely questioning whether the methods your church uses are suitable and correct - stop taking it to heart so much.
Stop trying to spread your opinions to other people (let them seek you), get over your silly little persecution complex and stop taking religion so seriously - being willing to die for something so trivial only makes me think that you're brainwashed into believing in it.
So maybe I'm soft, but this doesn't seem like a conversation to me. More of a 'I throw a point out and we destroy it'.
I love my religion. The end. You don't have to, but there's no reason to verbally destroy what I love.
So maybe I'm soft, but this doesn't seem like a conversation to me. More of a 'I throw a point out and we destroy it'.
It's not really a conversation, as you and sproo spent 3 pages on "I don't like door to door people" and you saying "It's not a big interruption" and repeat.
I love my religion.
What exactly about it to you makes it seem to be the only true religion out there as opposed to the hundreds of others?
but there's no reason to verbally destroy what I love.
No one is doing that,(Atm) they are just saying that 99.99% of people you go to their homes would rather you hadn't, including them.
If something interests me then I'm going to rip it apart to find out more about it, that's how I work, tear it to pieces and examine each piece in detail until I have a better knowledge of something. Looking at the strengths and limitations and providing criticisms in the hope of receiving feedback or clarification are the best ways of finding out more about something.
I like this guy. This is more conversational.
I love my religion, because it provides a clear path for me. It may be thought that I am restricted, but I am actually allowed more freedom. But not drinking, I don't have to worry about vomiting in the toilet at 3:00 AM, or becoming a Dad a 17.
And 99.99% How sure are you that is completely right?
I love my religion, because it provides a clear path for me.
More specifically, what about Mormonism is correct as opposed to other Christian denominations, or Muslim, or Jewish? And how do you know it's correct?
And 99.99% How sure are you that is completely right?
I don't, but i've never heard anything but complaints in my life about door to door salesment, JH, Mormons, etc. So I just say 99.99%.
I think you're confusing the consumption of alcohol with the consumption of alcohol to excess. Even if one has only moderate self-control then they know their limits and anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows the dangers of unprotected sex. Why do you require the guidelines set out under mormonism to give you this 'clear path' when all you really need is your own brain.
, but i've never heard anything but complaints in my life about door to door salesment,
I'm glad the missionaries knocked on my door. Now you have heard a positive. Have a happy day.
But this thread is to discuss the mormon church, not to **** it in the face, and tell everybody you hate it's sorry guts. You don't see us hating your religion. There isn't a 'I hate catholics' or 'Baptists are stupid' thread anywhere around here. And why do you feel you have to be so negative towards what I love and care for? I have no vendetta towards you.
stop being a baby, no ine has done that, i even stated that i totally respect your right to your religion, you should respect my right to question oe of your beliefs which i find to be intrusive and ultimately pointless without branding me a biggot
So maybe I'm soft, but this doesn't seem like a conversation to me. More of a 'I throw a point out and we destroy it'
well if you cant take the heat stay out of the WEPR, this is a debate forum after all
I love my religion, because it provides a clear path for me. It may be thought that I am restricted, but I am actually allowed more freedom. But not drinking, I don't have to worry about vomiting in the toilet at 3:00 AM, or becoming a Dad a 17.
you dont need a religion to stop this happening to you, if alcohol didnt exist the same idiots would find ways to destroy themselves, if you believe this happens to everyone who even touches alcohol, then you have a very warped view of the non mormon world
Holy crap there are a lot of new posts. I'll start way back at page 35. Please give me time to catch up, as I can't answer everything in one post.
@MageGrayWolf (page 35) the trolling part was the "on a site with games". Again, I mostly ignored that. Everything else you said was logical.
@Avorne (page 35) you make a good point.
I made a few posts I probably shouldn't have, looking back. I've been advised to calm down. If you could, it would really help me if you would tell me what exactly you want to know, because I've kind of lost track. I will do my best to provide [new] answers for you.
(pages 36 to 38-ish)
On the topic of missionary work. From most of what I hear about missionary work, missionaries get a lot of doors slammed in their faces. From my point of view, the door to door thing is because there are people who are looking but don't know where to start. If a missionary is rude, that's the missionary's problem. I also would like to say that not all missions are proselyting missions. The one I will likely go on will be maintaining records in the Granite Mountain Vault.
@MageGrayWolf (on page 39) Yeah, I was afraid that would happen. Often, the people are the major turnoff for an investigator. In some places, the missionaries have to tell people to greet the investigators so they feel welcome (assuming the missionaries know the investigators are coming). Other places will welcome newcomers immediately, and make them feel welcome. I try to make it a point to do the second.
@sprooschicken (on page 39) where do you live? That seems like an odd situation. Are you sure there are no churches, or are you thinking of temples?
@314d1 now you're just trying to be a jerk. Yes, some of the things we do are strange to outsiders - I fully admit that, but that does not mean we deserve to be mocked.
@Avorne (on page 40) Being serious about a religion doesn't necessarily make one a hardcore fanatic. In some cases, it does, but not in all cases. I've had friends from the South, and boy do they have some stories. I won't go into it now, but there is quite a lot of harassment between religions down there.
@Kasic (on page 40) the church does not pay their missionaries. Most, if not all, missionaries save up and pay their own ways - i.e. clothing, food, room & board (if applicable), travel expenses. Does that change your perspective of missionaries at all?
@MageGrayWolf (on page 41) It would defeat the purpose of faith if he were to just come down and show himself to all the world. Also, it's a ton more than a handful. We have thousands of missionaries in several countries. I'd have to look up the statistical report from General Conference to give you exact numbers, but do let me know if you want them. Armed_Blade makes a good point here. God coming down himself and making everyone one single religion would defeat the purpose of Agency and Accountability.
@Kasic (on page 41) actually, missionaries are required to report their activities to their Mission Presidents (I think that's who they report it to). Also, I could tell you off the top of my head that the success rate is much higher in Latin American countries than in European countries. Most European countries are considered the hardest missions because very few baptisms ever occur. We do keep pretty good records as a church. If the missionaries did not keep a record, how would they be held accountable for what they've done? Certainly we wouldn't use an honor system where we trust that they did something good that week or trust that they "baptized 7 people" or something like that. Now, I can tell I'm starting to ramble here, so I'm just going to cut to the chase: we do keep pretty accurate records.
@sprooschicken (on page 42) I'm sorry, but we don't try to force our way in. We knock, and if they reject, they reject. And we move on. Often, the door is closed right when they look at us. Are you implying that we try to open the door again? That would be ridiculous.
Also, oftentimes missionaries do stand out in the street. They don't strictly do door-to-door stuff, and not all missionaries do go door-to-door.
You also seem to be missing the point. There are obviously going to be people who couldn't care less what we have to say. We leave them alone for the most part. You're also assuming that everyone is busy all the time, even when they're home - or at least it seems that way to me. And one more time: you tell us to leave, we will leave. And no, knocking on your front door is not an invasion of personal space. Walking into your house uninvited would be.
but when you come to my house, uninvited when you feel like it, you are invading my personal space, you have no right because you think it is right
You seem to assume that we come at the most ungodly hours. If we had no right to knock on your door, then door-to-door salesmen would also be barred from doing so. You're taking a small thing and making it something that it's not. You are not obligated to let us into your house; you are not obligated to even answer the door. It's not like the missionaries will just stand there for hours waiting for you to come to the door.
We don't have a lot of money as a church, so we wouldn't much be able to advertise everywhere. Most of our money goes to building churches and temples, humanitarian aid, and to paying church employees. We don't have money to spare on missionaries. Again, missionaries pay mostly for themselves. Very little money is spent by the church to send a missionary out.
@ShonaFurey (on page 43) you have a good point - one that I wish the others would see.
@Avorne (on page 43) Unlike door-to-door salesmen, we don't have some sort of quota to fill. We're much more inclined to leave when you tell us to, whereas a salesman will try to keep talking as long as he can to try to sell you something and get paid commission.
@sprooschicken (on page 43) Pro tip: a NO SOLICITING sign is a wonderful invention.
And finally, page 45. Kasic has an excellent point. Many of those pages I read were not conversation. It was bickering. Now, if there are any questions about what I have just said, please, let me know. For now, I have to get back to work.
And here I was saying that I wouldn't make it through all the pages in one post... o_o
Also, I thought I'd let you know I'm going to be around more often now, and finally - finally - have time to do the post I never actually made.
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