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Forums → WEPR → Justice System
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Can it really be considered a justice system if what you're doing is punishing the criminal? It is a punitive system more than a justice system.
Before you go on to say it it depends on what you call justice hear me out.
In plea bargains, both the defendant and prosecutor win, but not the victim. You would want the person who ***** you to be charged with violent sexual assault, not disrupting the peace or something like that. It is not justice if the victim does not benefit? He receives no closure.
In our punitive system, the criminal is not rehabilitated, but rather taught how to become a better criminal. In Norway, prisons are not prisons, but rehabilitation centres where people learn why what they did is wrong. In prison you are not taught what you did is wrong, but are encouraged to do activities such as participating clubs focusing on art, movies, and books. Even then, you are not forced to do anything.
Yes, I know I said in another thread that it is worse to rot in prison than to the death penalty, but it is even better to rehabilitate criminals more than both of those combined.
I am also not saying that clubs and classes in prisons should be removed, but I am asking for rehabilitation centres in prison. In the long run, it would be better since it would prevent repeat offenders and actually help society.
What do you guys think?
- 42 Replies
I like how you avoid the question by asking me another. Since you are either too lazy to do it or know you will be proven wrong if you do it, I will do it for you.
Ad Hominem is a personal, below-the-belt attack against a person, instead of their argument. Telling me to use Google Translator would imply that I'm illiterate, and an ignoramous. Thats not 'below-the-belt' at all. -_-
A list of punishments does not prove anything.
Saudi Arabia has stricter punishments, and less crime. The Harsher Punishments deter crime:
Saudi Arabia Crime Statistics
We cannot prevent crime, nor can we deter it.
If we cannot prevent crime, nor deter it, than whats the point of a justice system? If the criminlas will commit crimes, and we can't stop them, than why do we put them in prison? You almost seem to be arguing a deterministic philosophy here...
Saudi Arabia has stricter punishments, and less crime. The Harsher Punishments deter crime:
That's not necessarily true - there are other factors. Does the USA have less than ~12x the crime of Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia has around 26 million people, whereas the USA has over 300 million. Raw statistical comparison doesn't give an accurate picture of how well it works - so does Saudi Arabia have 12x less crime than the USA or less? If not, then proportionally they have equal or more crime than we do. There're also other reasons - different laws (especially on abuse towards women), different culture, etc. Harsher punishments aren't the only thing contributing to (what may be) less crime - correlation =/= causation, and quite frankly you haven't even show that there's a correlation yet.
Ad Hominem is a personal, below-the-belt attack against a person, instead of their argument. Telling me to use Google Translator would imply that I'm illiterate, and an ignoramous. Thats not 'below-the-belt' at all. -_-
An ad hominem argument is just that - an argument. You can't dismiss all personal attacks as ad hominem arguments because there's a difference: ad hominem uses a personal attack as an argument, whereas a personal attack is just that - a personal attack. What Kevin did was more of a personal attack than an ad hominem argument, because he wasn't using one of your attributes as a counter-argument, he was only insulting you.
. . . double post >_____>
Ad Hominem is a personal, below-the-belt attack against a person, instead of their argument. Telling me to use Google Translator would imply that I'm illiterate, and an ignoramous. Thats not 'below-the-belt' at all. -_-
I like how you still only looked at my first sentence and stopped. You completely ignored my examples and took no time to look what Ad Hominem was on Wikipedia or something.
Plus, I just said for you to use Google Translator as a joke because I was too lazy to clarify. I wasn't trying to offend.
Saudi Arabia has stricter punishments, and less crime. The Harsher Punishments deter crime:
Saudi Arabia Crime Statistics
Your previous post does not prove anything, nor does this. Saudi Arabia has 12x less people than the US. I want percentages from a .ORG site or .GOV site. Any site that has .com is a company, and only wants to make a profit.
If we cannot prevent crime, nor deter it, than whats the point of a justice system? If the criminlas will commit crimes, and we can't stop them, than why do we put them in prison? You almost seem to be arguing a deterministic philosophy here...
We can only prevent recidivists by rehabilitation.
Plus, I just said for you to use Google Translator as a joke because I was too lazy to clarify. I wasn't trying to offend.
<sarcasm>
Your previous post does not prove anything, nor does this. Saudi Arabia has 12x less people than the US. I want percentages from a .ORG site or .GOV site.
If I was looking at it along the lines of: Saudi Arabia has 1000 murders, and the US has 10,000 Murders. Therefore, Saudi Arabia must have less crime. Than yes, population would apply here.
But proportionally, Saudi Arabia has less crime, and more punishments. And Numerically, Saudi Arabia has more executions than the US. And thats WITH 12x LESS population than the US.
Any site that has .com is a company, and only wants to make a profit.
Because profit is the root of all evil. -_-
We can only prevent recidivists by rehabilitation.
Proove it.
But proportionally, Saudi Arabia has less crime, and more punishments. And Numerically, Saudi Arabia has more executions than the US. And thats WITH 12x LESS population than the US.
Your source didn't mention any of that. Back it up. And you also never answered my point about other factors besides punishments - correlation =/= causation.
<sarcasm>
k.
If I was looking at it along the lines of: Saudi Arabia has 1000 murders, and the US has 10,000 Murders. Therefore, Saudi Arabia must have less crime. Than yes, population would apply here.
The population applies no matter what way you look at it.
But proportionally, Saudi Arabia has less crime, and more punishments. And Numerically, Saudi Arabia has more executions than the US. And thats WITH 12x LESS population than the US.
Saudi Arabia is the same country that doesn't allow women to drive cars or walk in front of men.
Because profit is the root of all evil. -_-
Money corrupts.
Proove it.
Well, since we can't deter crime, and we can't prevent it, what do we do? Prevent recidivists. How do we prevent recidivists? By showing them that crime is not the answer.
Kevin i must disagree with you on the matter that we can't prevent crime. Here are some of my arguements:
-Generally if person commits a crime, it's because he is unemployed
(i say generally because there are many different people and situation in which their are.) occupie them and it will decrease the crime rate by at least half or even 3/4.
-No men is born evil, that said a lot of people follow the life of an outlaw since in their eyes it's cool (this people are often kids or young adults) or the only way to survive (have food and a roof). It's what we call influence from the environment, or adaptation. (a child that is born in a violent env. will have a strong chance of be violent when he grows up, and during his young life.)
-Others fall victim to wrong choices they made (some people don't see all the opportunity, or sollution the have, or make the wrong decision, mostly due to a finacial situation)
-"I know many things about life but none can know all" what i'm saying is; their are different situation in a Human life which might lead to uncivil existance , that's why we have a govr. to lead us. so preventing is possible but isn't in place because no institution can manage it.
Saudi Arabia is the same country that doesn't allow women to drive cars or walk in front of men.
So they dont give rights to women. Still have less crime.
Money corrupts.
I must be the most corrupt ever since I use money everyday.
A way I think we should reduce crime is by having criminals work it off. No sitting in cells for you guys forced labor time/
A way I think we should reduce crime is by having criminals work it off. No sitting in cells for you guys forced labor time/
communist had the same approach in soviet russia, their militia would arrest everybody that would be suspected of a "crime", and were deported to Goulags for forced labor. we shouldn't fall into extrimism.
communist had the same approach in soviet russia, their militia would arrest everybody that would be suspected of a "crime", and were deported to Goulags for forced labor. we shouldn't fall into extrimism.
But these would be robbers, drug traffickers, pedos, and others who hurt society.
-Generally if person commits a crime, it's because he is unemployed
(i say generally because there are many different people and situation in which their are.) occupie them and it will decrease the crime rate by at least half or even 3/4.
-No men is born evil, that said a lot of people follow the life of an outlaw since in their eyes it's cool (this people are often kids or young adults) or the only way to survive (have food and a roof). It's what we call influence from the environment, or adaptation. (a child that is born in a violent env. will have a strong chance of be violent when he grows up, and during his young life.)
-Others fall victim to wrong choices they made (some people don't see all the opportunity, or sollution the have, or make the wrong decision, mostly due to a finacial situation)
-"I know many things about life but none can know all" what i'm saying is; their are different situation in a Human life which might lead to uncivil existance , that's why we have a govr. to lead us. so preventing is possible but isn't in place because no institution can manage it.
I don't necessarily know what you're saying, but all I know is that out of 320 million people, at least half a million of them will commit a crime.
So they dont give rights to women. Still have less crime.
They don't have less crime, proportionally, and have tougher death penalties.
I must be the most corrupt ever since I use money everyday.
Not the use of, but the collection of.
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