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valkery
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valkery
1,255 posts
Nomad

I, throughout the course of my AG career have become a Deist.

This is a basic overwiew of Deism, what we believe, and why. It also provides a basic history, and some prominent people involved in Deism.

This thread is for you to try to disprove Deism, which I think is harder than disproving anything else (religion wise) because we don't think that the Bible, or any religious text for that matter is telling the truth. We also base everything off of reason, so the only way to disprove us is to poke a hole in our reasoning.

I look at it this way:

Creationists believe that an invisible man with magical powers created the Earth in seven days, from dust.

Evolutionists believe that it rained on rocks for several billion years until there was enough accumulation of the building blocks of life that living things formed.

Both seem kind of silly to me. I think it is more reasonable to think that a god helped to push the Earth in the early stages, speeding up the process of Evolution quite a bit, and then sat back and popped some popcorn just waiting to see what would happen. A god doesn't have to be an invisible man, a god is just something that is more powerful than us that we haven't seen, or don't fully understand.

  • 23 Replies
thestuntman
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thestuntman
303 posts
Nomad

This thread is for you to try to disprove Deism


How about you try to disprove evolutionist beliefs. You already know what everyone is about to say in this thread. So you might as well fire the first shot.
valkery
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valkery
1,255 posts
Nomad

Okay. Fine.

The oldest estimate for intelligent life I have seen on this site is approx. 10,000 years ago. With early Mesopotamians and the Sumerians. That is a long time to go from 4.7 billion years to 10,000 year without humans being around. Also, would any atheist care to explain why Saturn still has it's rings? Or why the Earth is going this fast, and hasn't slown down significantly yet? Or why there are very few supernova's visible in the nights sky? If you can explain all of these, you can start to sway me to your point of view. However, the only reasonable explanation I have been presented with thus far for all of these anomolies that would prove the universe is not billions of years old. One last thing that I just remembered. How are comets still flying around? They should have burned out years ago.

thestuntman
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thestuntman
303 posts
Nomad

why Saturn still has it's rings?

What do you think is supposed to happen to them?

why the Earth is going this fast, and hasn't slown down significantly yet?

It's because of gravitational attraction to the sun. Space is frictionless, imagine rolling a penny around a circular track, like they have a science centers. Except imagine it without gravity pulling it down. It would just spin forever.

why there are very few supernova's visible in the nights sky?


They are too far away to see with the naked eye.

How are comets still flying around?

Why wouldn't they be. How would they burn out?
Squidbears
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Squidbears
626 posts
Nomad

explain why Saturn still has it's rings?

saturn has a lot of moons... and all those giant bodies make this magic thing called gravity... and attracts chunks of rock and ice

Or why the Earth is going this fast, and hasn't slown down significantly yet?

if you're asking why we're traveling through space and not stopping... look up newtons laws

why there are very few supernova's visible in the nights sky?

probably because light has to go a really far way? but im not sure about this one
benman113
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benman113
329 posts
Peasant

Well the thing is deism is less proven then the theory of evolution but and when yow compare it to creationism it still states that life was created by some "higher being(s)" in which there has been no evidence of.

Moe
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Moe
1,714 posts
Blacksmith

However, the only reasonable explanation I have been presented with thus far for all of these anomolies that would prove the universe is not billions of years old.


Care to explain how light from far away stars has had 13-14 billion years to travel?
thestuntman
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thestuntman
303 posts
Nomad

Guys it's not worth it, the Original Poster always makes these kinds of arguments and then just runs away after we rip it to shreds, I'm outta here.

Kevin4762
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Kevin4762
2,420 posts
Nomad

What is this thread accomplishing? That's like trying to prove that a thought. I can't prove Socialism.

thestuntman
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thestuntman
303 posts
Nomad

I can't prove Socialism

Well yeah, but that's because it's not right for the United States of America, or any country for that matter. :P
Kevin4762
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Kevin4762
2,420 posts
Nomad

Well yeah, but that's because it's not right for the United States of America, or any country for that matter. :P


Sweden's economy is booming because of Socialism.

Anyway, since this is basically trying the point of this thread is to try to prove a way of life and thought and there really is no debate, I think it should be locked.

They almost always go off topic, and valkery never responds, just like in his "Disproving Evolution" thread.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I, throughout the course of my AG career have become a Deist.


Last I checked deists believed god created the universe then stepped back and let things run it's course. So what is up with all this intervention young earth creationism crap from you lately?

This thread is for you to try to disprove Deism


Deism like every other religious belief out there is not up for us to disprove. Your still the one making the claim of existence, so your still holding burden of proof. How many times do you have to be told this before it sinks into your head?

Both seem kind of silly to me. I think it is more reasonable to think that a god helped to push the Earth in the early stages, speeding up the process of Evolution quite a bit, and then sat back and popped some popcorn just waiting to see what would happen.


Given we can find the required materials all over the place even in outer space, how is it so unbelievable that a god was unnecessary?

A god doesn't have to be an invisible man, a god is just something that is more powerful than us that we haven't seen, or don't fully understand.


The problem with this definition is similar to the argument of "I don't know so God did it" but in this case it's more like "I don't fully understand it so it's god" in both cases your just applying god where it's unneeded.

The oldest estimate for intelligent life I have seen on this site is approx. 10,000 years ago.


the oldest estimates for when our species first evolved is about 100,000 years ago. While for the environment we were the most successful species, we may not have been the first to express such intelligence.

That is a long time to go from 4.7 billion years to 10,000 year without humans being around.


And your point is what?

Also, would any atheist care to explain why Saturn still has it's rings?


I'm guessing what your trying to get at here is that how can the planet have rings if it's billions of years old, would that be correct? If so this is not an issue as the rings are only about 100million years and tend to recycle itself. Again an estimate not fitting with the young Earth model.

Or why the Earth is going this fast, and hasn't slown down significantly yet?


The decay of earths rotation is very slow only accounting for about 14 hours lost.

How are comets still flying around? They should have burned out years ago.


The comets flying around weren't formed at the beginning of the solar system. They come from sources such as the Oort Cloud between Uranus and Neptune. Sources such as this replenish the comets around us.

Also a note I recommend you stop reading creationist websites. You clearly don't possess the critical thinking skills required to see through their bull.
Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

Evolutionists believe that it rained on rocks for several billion years until there was enough accumulation of the building blocks of life that living things formed.


Look - I could just as easily create a straw-man about deism.

Deists just believe some somehow perfect God on a whim created the world and is just sitting back and eating popcorn (or ambrosia and nectar).

Obviously, deism defies Occam's razor (you can't create deities if you can avoid it), so the burden of proof is on you.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

They almost always go off topic, and valkery never responds, just like in his "Disproving Evolution" thread.


I do see him respond from time to time. Though given his record I have to wonder if he really is interested in learning anything, as I have seen him make the same arguments over and over that have already been shot down. My guess is he thinks if we can't answer one of these questions then he thinks he get's to say "See! God did it!" (Not trying to put words in his mouth just stating how it seems.)
valkery
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valkery
1,255 posts
Nomad

I do see him respond from time to time. Though given his record I have to wonder if he really is interested in learning anything, as I have seen him make the same arguments over and over that have already been shot down.


Thank you Mage. I would have responded, but the same night I created the thread, my computer went haywire.

Time for me to respond, like people apparently think I should.

Last I checked deists believed god created the universe then stepped back and let things run it's course. So what is up with all this intervention young earth creationism crap from you lately?


I was trying to solidify my theory. Since you guys like to debate, and I am amazingly lazy, I thought you guys could do the research for me. It seems to work most of the time.

How many times do you have to be told this before it sinks into your head?


This is the first time I have heard about burden of proof.

Given we can find the required materials all over the place even in outer space, how is it so unbelievable that a god was unnecessary?


If you take all the parts for a man, the legs, head, eyes, arms, etc., throw them into a pot and let it simmer for a while, you will still end up with Human stew. Not a human. Just because the pieces are there does not mean that they miraculously came together under their own free will and formed humans.

The problem with this definition is similar to the argument of "I don't know so God did it" but in this case it's more like "I don't fully understand it so it's god" in both cases your just applying god where it's unneeded.


If someone could fully explain it to me, without any holes in their thinking whatsoever, then I would have to admit that their is not a god. However, if you cannot 100% prove to me that their is no way whatsoever of their being a god, I am going to go one believing that their is some deity in the universe, somewhere, that helped form this planet.

The decay of earths rotation is very slow only accounting for about 14 hours lost.


Really? Because at the rate it is going now, that is an impossible figure. We slow down a second every year, at the current rate. If you assume that the world is 4.7 billion years old, then you have 4.7 billion seconds to add together. That come to approx 443 years of slow down. That would mean that at one point the Earth was spinning at an amazing velocity, far to fast for any substatial amounts of gasses to stay on the surface.

You clearly don't possess the critical thinking skills required to see through their bull.


Is this a very subtle way of telling me I am stupid? Why? For looking at evidence provided by a different souce than you and taking it for granted, just like you do?

I rarely read the websites I post. I look for the information on the website that I wish to show, and then I post it. Very rarely do I look at a website and get swayed by exactly what it is saying.
Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

That's like trying to prove that a thought. I can't prove Socialism.
Fallacy of the weak analogy. Deism says things about the physical world. It is an idea about what is and is not real. If deism claims X isn't real, and X proves to be real, deism is disproved.

What is this thread accomplishing?
That question is beyond the scope of this thread.

Also, would any atheist care to explain why Saturn still has it's rings? Or why the Earth is going this fast, and hasn't slown down significantly yet? Or why there are very few supernova's visible in the nights sky? If you can explain all of these, you can start to sway me to your point of view. However, the only reasonable explanation I have been presented with thus far for all of these anomolies that would prove the universe is not billions of years old. One last thing that I just remembered. How are comets still flying around? They should have burned out years ago.
Science. Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean it's wrong. It means you should listen to the people who do know what they're talking about. If you don't understand astronomy, trust an astronomer, don't just jump to conclusions.
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