This is meant to be a thread to have a view into the Christian mind and the Christian life. Basically, every Sunday and Wednesday, I'd like to simply share a Bible verse and talk a little about it.
There are a couple of reasons why I'm starting this. First, the atmosphere of WEPR has degenerated since I first joined AG in 2008. Second, I feel that those of us who are in the body of Christ, the church, should have a quiet place to increase our devotion and strengthen each other in the faith. Third, I've simply been moved by the heart of prayer to make this thread. Although I know none of you personally, I do pray for some of the people I have met here, whether they may like it or not. So let's encourage that.
Bible verses are in NIV, unless otherwise specified.
March 13-16: Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
When a non-Christian asks me to summarize Christianity in a short way, this is the first verse I turn to. All the problems in the world--the suffering, the pain, the hardship--stem from the first four words: "for all have sinned." And I know for me (and for many of us) this is the hardest thing, to acknowledge that we sin.
We sin, and we justify this to ourselves all the time: "This isn't quite so bad," "Not as bad as him," "Well, in this case." We become trained to think that morality is gray, that it is merely a social convention or a form of respect that we follow. And it's for this reason that the second point is fulfilled: that all "fall short of the glory of God."
There is nothing glorious about goodness if it must be justified here and justified there. And so, the reason why morality is seen as burdensome is not because it's something we should follow, it's because we constantly justify it to ourselves. And that is busywork.
Comments, questions, blessings, prayers all welcome!
Yup, by the people, not by god. But why god allowed us to make stupid decisions??? looks like you missed the point of my post.
God allows us to make stupid decisions because we have to learn from our mistakes and improve our flaws, and the sheer fact that God doesn't do everything for us like many athiests imply. You can't learn if you don't make a mistake, can you?
God allows us to make stupid decisions because we have to learn from our mistakes and improve our flaws, and the sheer fact that God doesn't do everything for us like many athiests imply. You can't learn if you don't make a mistake, can you?
Why not giving us enough wisdom to avoid mistakes? Why making us that imperfect? He wouldn't even have to help anymore, or not a lot, and we would be all happy and all go to heaven. Instead we must learn everything from beginning on, make a lot of mistakes and land in hell because of this. But he still loves us!
He didn't give us free will. We stole that from him in the garden of Eden....
So then how could it have been our fault for sinning if we didn't yet have free will? Sorry but your answer makes no sense even from a Christian perspective.
Considering that we are ON Earth and not in heaven, the only explanation for this would be, uh, science?
Science has nothing to do with these events happening, it can only be used to make predictions and explanations about such things.
Considering the Christian perspective is that all hardship is the result of us sinning, I don't see how that relates to hardships out of our control caused by natural disasters and illness.
I'm glad that my verse generated some bit of discussion. I see elements of the days before and elements of the current days reflected, and I hope the difference becomes very evident.
I know there are a lot of questions from both sides, so I'd simply like to share a verse. I like to respond with this one with those who tell me honestly and directly that they believe Christianity is a hoax. I'm glad they're frank, because the Bible provides a frank answer for this as well.
2 Peter 1:16
We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Even only 50, 60, 70 years after Jesus' death and resurrection, the memory of the world became dim and condemned Christ's message (or even existence!) as a hoax or a story. How much more this day and age, two millenia later? But while Peter, an eyewitness to Jesus' glory, had the chance, he could attest to this power. And indeed, among us, God still reveals to us his majesty, just as he has through the generations. I daresay that if we were more clever in inventing our story, we should be more successful. But the fact of the matter is, God has made the wisdom of this world foolish. (1 Corinthians 1:20)
1 John 4:5-6
They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
There are many adept minds in the world and here in AG, but there is knowledge that is beyond what anyone here can understand. And yet we can acknowledge it as truth precisely for the reason why the unsaved cannot. This "Spirit of truth" is the Gospel, the Word of the beginning, the Word that was with God, and the Word that was God (John 1:1). "He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 11:15)
But why, I know the section that you're referencing very well; I used it in debate myself and often fell back on it when my faith began to crumble due to intellectual problems. But I never could reconcile why God would make the wisdom of the world, human wisdom, foolish. Why give us wisdom if we would just use it to postulate that God may not exist at all, it seems counterintuitive to me (which admittedly is my own knowledge and logic).
There are many adept minds in the world and here in AG, but there is knowledge that is beyond what anyone here can understand.
I understand that and I'm sure most others on the site do as well but the existence of things we cannot understand is not evidence for a God, or even for a being who could understand them. We have to take the fact at face value and add no personal emotions or wants to the fact that some things may very well be unknowable to any organism in the Universe.
those are some really good verses parsat! Parsat is right... some of the atheists in this world should actually try to listen to the bible. and i mean people of all religion.
those are some really good verses parsat! Parsat is right... some of the atheists in this world should actually try to listen to the bible. and i mean people of all religion.
We do more then your religious followers. That is mostly why we are atheists in the first place.
There are many adept minds in the world and here in AG, but there is knowledge that is beyond what anyone here can understand.
How is this an argument for God at all? It says nothing about God's validity whatsoever.
And now, please answer this:
As a Christian, what do you believe creates morality?
God? The Bible? How do these "create" morality?
Would God be able to accept virtues which were not in themselves virtuous? I think not! So God can't create morality at all! Religion is neither a necessity for morality nor a potential creator of morality.
Parsat is right... some of the atheists in this world should actually try to listen to the bible. and i mean people of all religion.
Er, you really didn't read what he was trying to say did you?
The bible verses he cited are against any human wisdom that does not come explicitly from god, do not call me out for not doing what your religion commands when you yourself are guilty of it.
Even only 50, 60, 70 years after Jesus' death and resurrection, the memory of the world became dim and condemned Christ's message (or even existence!) as a hoax or a story.
30 some odd years of no one even mentioning it can have that effect in an era where the average lifespan was about 30 years.
God still reveals to us his majesty, just as he has through the generations.
Then: Burning bushes, booming voices, a dude pulling miracles out his *** left and right, public appearances. Now: funny abstract feelings, oddly burned toast, and crying statues. Doesn't seem quite the same to me.
But the fact of the matter is, God has made the wisdom of this world foolish.
I would say just the opposite is true given how poorly divine knowledge has matched reality. Of course this statement when written didn't have to contend with modern scientific methods.
There are many adept minds in the world and here in AG, but there is knowledge that is beyond what anyone here can understand. And yet we can acknowledge it as truth precisely for the reason why the unsaved cannot.
This statement just contradicts itself. It seems all your saying is "we don't know but we know." Not to mention this method gives no means of verifying any claims made. Really these statements just seem to be encouraging ignorance.
some of the atheists in this world should actually try to listen to the bible. and i mean people of all religion.
You know I actually did, and the more I did the more convoluted and nonsensical it all got.
The bible verses he cited are against any human wisdom that does not come explicitly from god, do not call me out for not doing what your religion commands when you yourself are guilty of it.
Which is one of the biggest issues I have with this particular religion. You can imagine I'm holding back. I might go use that rant thread.
But it does imply that I am not prejudice, as Moon Faerie seems to think
MoonFAIRY, and you don't know what I think. But you know what? It really seems that you are. Saying that you aren't because you treat everyone else the same way is just plain rude and according to Alt, you are close to your third strike. So keep going.
Parsat I have a question for you. How do you distinguish the voice of God from anything else?
