I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
It's common sense that If I press one button on a vending machine that no matter what I'm going to get what the button says, unless there is some human error, but I fail to see how it applies to anything other than common sense
your reducto ad whatever looks good on paper, but it is irrelevant in real life.
One might argue that this entire argument is affirming the consequent - that I'm only giving one example. In reality, determinism applies to every single action in the universe.
However, not-determinism implies that there are contradictions between cause and effect. No contradictions can exist, therefore, determinism is inevitable.
Second - I HATE HATE HATE (needed 3 of them to express rage on interwebs) this type of argument. "Logically it should work, but it is not true." Whatever is logical and achieved through deductive reasoning MUST be true - you'd have to be irrational to deny it. And its relevance is not related to its truthful-ness.
If you cannot logically deny it, the Christianity is absolutely impossible!
It's common sense that If I press one button on a vending machine that no matter what I'm going to get what the button says, unless there is some human error, but I fail to see how it applies to anything other than common sense
He was using the vending machine as an example - a process wherein (we'll call it Process A), if you do things one way, you get Outcome A. If determinism was NOT true, than it would be possible to do Process A and get Outcome B. The vending machine argument was demonstrating that. However, that is logically impossible, so not-determinism is disproved, meaning determinism is proved, meaning Christianity cannot be true.
There is no proof for this, your argument is logically impossible, and deductive reasoning doesnt work
His argument was a demonstration that not-determinism doesn't work, not an actual argument for not-determinism.
And on deductive reasoning not working . . . I am liable to throw this forum section up in the air and walk away in disappointment. Please read up on deductive reasoning and learn what it is.
There is no proof for this, your argument is logically impossible, and deductive reasoning doesnt work
OK - let's use symbolized logic to lay it out better.
1. ~(p ^ ~p) - Law of Non-contradiction 2. (p v ~p) - Law of the Excluded Middle 3. ~D --> (p ^ ~p) - Not-Determinism (~D) implies a contradiction. 4. ~~D - Not-Not determinism, because Not-determinism implies a contradiction. 5. ~~D --> D - Not-Not something implies something. 6. Therefore, D - Determinism is inevitable!!!
I'll give you an example of proof of God. Atheists like to use the Big Bang as an example. Scientifically, the universe HAS to have a beginning and an end, as explained by scientists. So there HAS to be a creator for there to be a creation. In this form, the creation is the universe. So it is a contradiction for there not to be God
So there HAS to be a creator for there to be a creation. In this form, the creation is the universe. So it is a contradiction for there not to be God
Unless...there's a counterexample.
Anyway, I created a better cosmological argument of my own, but that's for another time...
However, the cosmological argument doesn't preclude the Big Bang starting everything.
The universe DOES have to have a beginning (not necessarily an end - why assume this?), but this is because of a finite amount of energy in the universe.
So there HAS to be a creator for there to be a creation.
Why? Why can't the matter have always existed? Why can't the universe collapse on itself into an infinitely small space and have the big bang happen again, and again and again..? Last I knew that was a valid idea for the universe.
