I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
All he was stating is that if they exist then they are real, factual, and thus would be able to be observed, measured, tested, etc.
This is based on an assumption that if something exists, it can be measured. This is not true in case of immaterial substances. Electromagnetic field is a form of matter's existance, therefore material although invisible, and being material, it can be measured.
Do you think animals have souls? If not, then explain how This occurs.
Current church teaching views animals as indeed having souls, although mortal souls or souls that don't require salvation. I'm yet uncertain about this, but indeed some species provide exceptional behavior with expressing almost-human feelings. And I'm not even speaking about primates - there's an evidence of a cat border guard, who was able to coherently speak, and kind of voluntarily helped humans to not get undermined. Some human though got angered by that cat's undermining him, so he killed that cat.
They are disregarded because they have no grounding in fact.
Torino's shroud, huh? So far I don't recall any of you objecting this.
No, and your statement is nonsense to be perfectly honest. The nonexistence of a soul does not demand that the only other state that a human could occupy is that of synthetic life.
Maybe - after all this wasn't stated a cast-iron truth. Going to find other arguments - there are some.
vespers claim seems to indicate that abstract thinking requires a soul.
I severely doubt that an elephant could paint that unless it had been trained to do it which still doesn't prove the existance of a soul.
We aren't arguing existence or non existence. just the one claim that abstract thinking requires a soul. Now yes the elephants are trained to paint, they are given hand signals to form basic shapes on the canvas. However to follow such hand signals would still require abstract thinking skills in order to relate the two. Also the language used by elephants and dolphins shows similar patterns to human speech. These patterns indicate that specific sounds have very specific meanings to them. This is again something only accomplished through abstract thinking. (I'll see if I can find something on it online, this was something shown on tv)
This is based on an assumption that if something exists, it can be measured. This is not true in case of immaterial substances.
If it interacts with the world we can measure that interaction. Since we have no examples of metaphysical things existing we have no reason to believe they do. Further more the things you attribute to being the result of the immaterial we either have material explanations for which leave you denying facts, or we actually don't know which meas your claiming to know something that you don't.
Torino's shroud, huh? So far I don't recall any of you objecting this.
Just so it's said abstract thought is nothing more then processes occurring in the brain. Hook someone up to a machine that monitors brain activity and we can even see the processes at work.
Yeah I've heard of the Shroud of Turin before, what are you trying to get at? Testing on it indicates it to be a forgery and even if it was authentic I don't see how it can be claimed with any certainty to be the one used on Jesus.
Weird supposition, given Turing's test that no machine can pass. If you would build such a machine, however, it will have your soul as its own.
Seriously your arguments just seem to get more and more ridiculous.
Well, a ridiculous statement requires ridiculous arguments.
Statements based on facts and logic are hardly ridiculous.
Sources!
How about the source you cited for one.
"The Photographic negatives of the cloth in 1898 revealed the image of a man bearing the marks of crucifixion. Carbon dating tests carried out in 1988 showed that the cloth was dated from 13th or 14th centuries."
Weird supposition, given Turing's test that no machine can pass. If you would build such a machine, however, it will have your soul as its own.
Which animals have souls? At which point does the soul arise? Was the first soul created in sponges, flatworms, insects? What about earthworms or nematodes? Do jellyfish?
Which animals have souls? At which point does the soul arise? Was the first soul created in sponges, flatworms, insects? What about earthworms or nematodes? Do jellyfish?
To add to the above. In the case of the robot sharing your soul, if that robot commits a sin are you held responsible for that sin? What if the robot becomes an atheist? Where does your soul go then? What if we clone someone? Does that clone have it's own soul or are you sharing a soul? If you do the same questions apply here as does with the robot sharing your soul. What of people with split brains? They develop two distinct personalities, one can be a Christian while the other atheist. Does the body get a second soul? If it's both the same soul then where does the person who is simultaneously a Christian and an atheist go?
Say a person has a frontal lobe lobotomy. Has their soul somehow changed? Or some type of injury involving the brain? What happened to their previous soul?
Our minds are in constant flux. How can constant change be represented with the same object (the same soul)? Does the soul comprise the mind across time? But people can change their mind for the better or worse. If sins are damages against the soul, then why do we necessarily "inherit" the sins that we had in the past in the next second and in the next second? Our minds are constantly changing.
