ForumsWEPRTheism and Atheism

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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Much like the early Jews would sacrifice a pure lamb, with no spots, pure white. The blood of a sinless man is the only thing that could bear all of the sins that God has put upon them.


How does a physical action have an effect on something that is suppose to be spiritual? As 314d1 asked why couldn't God absolve this sin without the need for death? Is this just one of those things we aren't really suppose to think to much about and is without an actual answer beyond "just take it on faith"?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Umm, I asked that.
Seriously, this is like the third time someone misquoted me for him.


Sorry about that.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Umm, I asked that.
Seriously, this is like the third time someone misquoted me for him.


Actually, I said that as well. For the record, you are using the avatar I used to use.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I think these are rather appropriate for the situation.

"Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense."-Carl Sagan

"The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false."-Thomas Aquinas

thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant



Also, If you want more proof, spend 15 bucks and get "top 10 proofs Christianity is the only true religion"

Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

If determinism, then not Christianity.

But Not-determinism makes absolutely no sense.

Here's an analogy - let's say you have a vending machine, you put in a dollar, and press a button, and you get a bottle of water. You turn back time and repeat it exactly as you had, but this time you don't get a bottle of water - you get a can of sprite. This is why determinism doesn't make sense.

So therefore, determinism.

So therefore, not Christianity.

thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

@Einfach that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

@Einfach that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

What specifically? We're in disagreement, right?
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

Your entire argument about a vending machine? nothing in your argument makes sense

thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Shepherd

What specifically? We're in disagreement, right?


He has no idea what determinism means.
Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

Your entire argument about a vending machine? nothing in your argument makes sense

Exactly - it's reductio ad absurdum AGAINST not-determinism. Therefore, determinism. Therefore Not-christianity.
Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

This is why determinism doesn't make sense.

Oops - bad typo - this should read - this is why determinism is the only plausible option - nothing else makes sense.
He has no idea what determinism means.

Forgot to include definition - thanks.

"a philosophical theory holding that all events are inevitable consequences of antecedent sufficient causes"

There - according to the definition, determinism is the only plausible option. And it precludes Christianity.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Shepherd

Exactly - it's reductio ad absurdum AGAINST not-determinism. Therefore, determinism. Therefore Not-christianity.


I doubt he knows what reductio ad absurdum means either :P

Einfach is basically saying that if determinism is correct, then Christianity is not. He was then saying that not-determinism makes no sense, and used an argument called a reductio ad absurdum - which is following the implications of a premise to an absurd and illogical consequence (in this case, doing the exact same thing but getting a different result), meaning that not-determinism cannot be correct, so determinism is, therefore Christianity is not.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

your reducto ad whatever looks good on paper, but it is irrelevant in real life.

thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Shepherd

your reducto ad whatever looks good on paper, but it is irrelevant in real life.


Determinism precludes the existence of a god, and he was demonstrating that non-determinism is logically impossible/implausible. That applies to everything.
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