ForumsWEPRWhat If The Rapture, or so it may seem.

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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This is to be just a little philosophical what if. I could almost put this in the Tavern but I would like to get some serious thought and see where that will lead.

Here's the scenario
By unknown means we suddenly end up with two identical Earths, each completely isolated from the other. In one all the theists in the world have been placed. In the other all the atheists in the world have been place. From the perspective of the theists all the atheists have seemingly been raptured, just suddenly disappearing. The same goes for the perspective of the atheists in regards to all the theists in the world.

How do you think each group would handle this event and what pros and cons do you think each group would face?

My thoughts
For the atheists there would be far fewer people in the world. This could make maintaining modern day to day life difficult at first. The atheist group would be left with a majority of the scientific community so giving a better chance of rebuilding. The atheist group would also be left with a world that is no longer facing a strain on resources.
The theists, particularly the Christian fundamentalists might face a panic seeing the reward they were promised given to the non believers of the world.

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314d1
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314d1
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Reminds me of a video...Imagine if All Atheists Left America.

Politically, Russia, having a rather large population of atheists, (Somewhere from 15-48%, from a quick glance of Wikipedia, and having a decent amount of people to begin with, would probably rise as a world power again, as well as much of England. America, having a high amount of theist, would rise to pretty much the strongest religiously motivated powerhouse, which would be kind of scary. The religious world would turn into a ball of fire within a few decades. Though yes, the atheists would, for the most part, have trouble rebuilding do to the loss of a majority of the Earth's population, after a decent amount of rebuilding has been done it would be a nice place.

Paarfam
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Paarfam
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So... | And...
Earth one|Earth two
Theists | Atheists
|
__(^^)________
(Wall of a sort)
Right?
Then, a rapture comes along and takes the atheists, leaving the theists alone, right?

Atheist Pros
-Live in Heaven

Atheist Cons
-Beliefs contradicted

No idea for the theist society.
Oh, and if these two places are isolated how would they know what happens to the other planet?

Paarfam
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Paarfam
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My picture failed, but I think you get the idea, the planets are separated.

MageGrayWolf
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Then, a rapture comes along and takes the atheists, leaving the theists alone, right?


It would be relative. Each group would see the other vanish. It would only look like the way the Rapture is described with people just suddenly vanishing. No one would go to Heaven, just to a separate identical Earth.

Oh, and if these two places are isolated how would they know what happens to the other planet?


They don't, they wouldn't even be aware of the other planet's existence. All they would see is a bunch of people just suddenly vanish without a trace.
Eless
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Well, obviously, the theists would see this as an act of a deity. The problem that would arise from that is which religious faction's god did it. This, eventually, would lead to war, before anything else major happened. Muslim extremists would bomb buildings, protestant zealots would kill their neighbors, and the Hindus would all set themselves on fire. In the end, I think, the overarching violence of a miniscule (yet dangerous) faction of Muslims would overpower other religions as well as the main bulk of Catholics (the majority) who would be unwilling to fight. If in the event that enough Catholics came up in arms to defeat the Muslims, they would conquer the world. If that happened, then they would probably give tolerance to all religions that remained, on grounds of their involvement in World War 3. If the Muslims, however, succeeded, then there would be a civil war within Islam that would most likely result in the destruction of their world.

The atheist's world would be more easily resolved, yet perhaps more complicated in a subtle fashion. What I perceive is that in this odd happening, religion would spring in that world, as some atheists would re-assess their beliefs as a result of the isolation of them on what they may think is Earth. I think, then, in a matter of years it would settle down much like earth today, with somewhat different religions (although I think there would be a fair amount of those who would convert to Christianity or Islam. Now, with religion gone, there would be a shift in morals as a whole, because whether it is true or not, there is an underlying perception that morality as a whole is accredited to religion, as in the Ten Commandments, etc. There would be spikes in abortions, homosexual marriages (maybe causing an ever so slight shift in population), and various stem-cell researches. This would probably result in acceleration in scientific discoveries, making the atheist's world fairly more pleasant.

There are a few aspects of this question (and a fascinating one it is, kudos to MageGrayWolf) that cannot be necessarily guessed because of all the influence we undergo every day from society. The first of these would be how the disappearance of millions of people, and the resulting questions arising from that, would affect the growth of these earths. As I stated before, there would probably be new religions born from this, but what would arguments arising from this be resolved? Would there be debates and competitions? Or would there be violence that could shake the history of that earth? The second question would be, how would the religious and atheists act and react, knowing they were among their own brethren?

Kasic
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I believe it would be fairly obvious to both groups that, for the theists, none remain who do not believe in a god, and for the atheists, all the theists are gone. That in itself would signify some sort of divine involvement.

Paarfam
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Man, did I ever mistake what you meant... I understand now.

iMogwai
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The theists would probably believe that the atheists were all killed in an as painful manner as possible and then disposed of. And I think different parts of the world would have very different situations after this.

In Sweden, for example, atheism is very common. I'm guessing the atheistic Sweden would manage without too much trouble, while the theistic counterpart would be left with a small population in an already scarcely populated country.

However, I believe that the situation would be pretty much the opposite in the USA. Generally, I believe that both Earths would manage due to cooperation, both Earths would have nations where the majority of the population was brought along.

It probably wouldn't take long for people to adjust, the decreased production is balanced out by the decreased needs.

I think that such a separation would strengthen the theists faiths, and as they thought the atheists were being punished, they would probably take their faith much more literally, out of fear. This would probably mean slowing down scientific research by a lot.

The atheists, however, would probably have many, many more questions after this separation, and I think that if anything, their research would increase.

As for how they'd survive, I think they'd both do fine. People survived in the past when the church had so much more power, so I don't think the theists would have any trouble rebuilding. Atheists would probably not have any problems either, and they'd probably rebuild about as quickly.

Personally, I think the theistic world's church would gain a lot more power, and this could be a bad thing, since history tells us that the church can stand in the way of science (Galileo Galilei, for example). Maybe this is just a biased opinion, but I also think they would control the sharing of information much more. They thought the atheists had been punished before, maybe they were worried that if it happened again, God would punish everyone. This would probably lead to much more control over published books, and the internet. Perhaps this would reduce peoples' ability to communicate with people in other parts of the world, which could also cause people to be very close-minded and prejudiced.

qwerty1011
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I think that country borders and things like that would shift and people would probably convert to atheist or theists on their respective world. Do they change between worlds if they convert? And what happens to babies? The system of government might change for both and there would be a lot more advances in science without the church and things like that to hold them back for the atheists. If underpopulation is a problem scientists might grow some people in laboratories. For the theists there would probably be a big war between some of the violent religions and Islam/ Christianity would win and probably try and convert the world and there would be almost no scientific advances and the world would grind to a halt. We are ignoring the whole people freaking out thing though. And depression from losing friends and family.

MageGrayWolf
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Do they change between worlds if they convert?


I meant it as a one time deal, so no.

And what happens to babies?


Babies hold no belief in god right?

If underpopulation is a problem scientists might grow some people in laboratories.


A minimum viable population only has to be about 5,000, so I don't think that's a worry.
p1a2r3i4s5
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So, how do I think each group would handle this event and what pros and cons do you think each group would face?

Some of the atheists, as I say below, would be possible to choose to start believing in a religion, after the incident, but most of them, as far as I am concerned, would not consider it 'an act of God', and would simply regard it as an illusion, or something inexplicable, non - religion related.

In my opinion, the atheists would definitely be at an advantage; smaller population means fewer needs, there would be no disputes about religion similar to the ones today in size (even though a number of the atheists could decide to start 'having faith', after that event, perhaps the majority would still remain the same or, in an extreme case, they could split into two or three groups - true atheists and atheists who formed their new religion(s)/chose one or some of the old ones and went with it/them, either unchanged or modified), science would advance, most probably, even more rapidly. Life would have little reason not to revert to normal relatively soon.

Morals could, however, take a hit, as Eless mentioned, along with tradition (considering most of the people to keep traditions alive tend to be religious, as well). I don't believe, though, that the hit (to morals, at least) would be that hard or one they would not be able to easily recover from, since society (in its structuring) itself should not change that much. Traditions and customs could be lost, on the other hand, and thus the nations could shift and change, since their identities could be altered. Not to mention some countries would easily almost completely vanish from the 'atheist Earth'.


The way I see it, the theists would be in a whole lot of trouble. Each religion group would try to explain the event in its own way, and, of course, convince the others that they are correct. Even if war and chaos would not almost instantly take over, it would be bound to happen in the near future. And of course, the church would become incredibly important, again, since many would easily become fanatics, affected by what happened, most probably believing in their religion more than ever, in a fashion that could harm others as well as themselves.

If we looked at a map of Earth where each area would be coloured to be correspondent to what the dominant religion is, atheism would be white, let's say, right? It is easy to see that once that 'white matter' is out of the way, there is nothing separating one religion group from another; this event would cause quite some clashes between stronger (as in 'denser' groups and weaker (not as common in an area) ones in every day life for many people, other than the potential wars to be brought about.

Other than all that, science would undoubtedly fall way behind as a priority. Even the few religious scientists to be left would most probably be under great pressure by the public to stop researching or experimenting or doing pretty much anything, since it could be considered what got them there in the first place.

I can honestly think of no significant pros they would have, other than the fact the bonds between people of the same religion would strengthen, with societies to have a 95%+ of one religion group functioning better.

In general, I think the theists' Earth would be turned into what it was half a century, or perhaps a century and even more ago, with the way back being extremely difficult to walk, even without considering the potential wars to break out.


Well, I think this is my first WEPR post. Was it satisfactory to read and did it contribute to the conversation?

qwerty1011
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The scientists will, when given a good mystery, will explore the hell out of it and lead to new understanding in multiverse theory.


But I mean when it has just happened and with families torn apart and stuff people will freak out and while they will calm down soon and accept it I mean it will be really chaotic at the beginning.

Babies hold no belief in god right?


But what I meant was if there is a baby in a theist family or something like that it would be left in the house and starve.

Morals could, however, take a hit, as Eless mentioned, along with tradition (considering most of the people to keep traditions alive tend to be religious, as well). I don't believe, though, that the hit (to morals, at least) would be that hard or one they would not be able to easily recover from, since society (in its structuring) itself should not change that much. Traditions and customs could be lost, on the other hand, and thus the nations could shift and change, since their identities could be altered. Not to mention some countries would easily almost completely vanish from the 'atheist Earth'.


I don't see why atheists have to lose morals. Some of the theists would probably revert to fundamentalism and wage war. Traditions and customs wouldn't really matter since countries would shift and become bigger and while I think a unified nation is unlikely maybe a few large countries would exist.

Well, I think this is my first WEPR post. Was it satisfactory to read and did it contribute to the conversation?


yeah, pretty much. if you are going to post like daily then you might not want to do such long posts since that takes ages.
MageGrayWolf
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In my opinion, the atheists would definitely be at an advantage; smaller population means fewer needs, there would be no disputes about religion similar to the ones today in size (even though a number of the atheists could decide to start 'having faith', after that event, perhaps the majority would still remain the same or, in an extreme case, they could split into two or three groups - true atheists and atheists who formed their new religion(s)/chose one or some of the old ones and went with it/them, either unchanged or modified), science would advance, most probably, even more rapidly. Life would have little reason not to revert to normal relatively soon.


Don't forget there would still be the non theistic religions left in the atheist world.

Morals could, however, take a hit,


In what way?

But what I meant was if there is a baby in a theist family or something like that it would be left in the house and starve.


Unless someone found it first.
p1a2r3i4s5
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I don't see why atheists have to lose morals.
and In what way?
Quoting Eless' words;
Now, with religion gone, there would be a shift in morals as a whole, because whether it is true or not, there is an underlying perception that morality as a whole is accredited to religion, as in the Ten Commandments, etc.
. Atheists, of course, are not immoral. It's just that theists tend to be stricter when it comes to morals, and it often has to do with what their religion suggests should or should not be done, in certain situations, or in life as a whole.
Although many atheists can be more 'moral' than your average theist, I don't think it can be argued that, as a whole, atheists are slightly 'freer' in many aspects, considering the fact they have no religion (in our case, there are also the ones with the non theistic religions, so, I guess my arguement was not that strong) that dictates how they should or should not act.

Don't forget there would still be the non theistic religions left in the atheist world.
Thank you for reminding me. I had forgotten those exist as well. Now, excuse my ignorance, but could you give me an example?

Traditions and customs wouldn't really matter since countries would shift and become bigger and while I think a unified nation is unlikely maybe a few large countries would exist.
Actually, I agree with you there.

if you are going to post like daily then you might not want to do such long posts since that takes ages.
Oh, don't worry, I do not intend to be as active in this section. I just saw a topic that caught my attention, and decided to give some time (10 - 15 minutes) to expressing my opinion.

you gets a rncookie
Thank you! Delicious...
qwerty1011
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Thank you for reminding me. I had forgotten those exist as well. Now, excuse my ignorance, but could you give me an example?


Stuff like Buddhism
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