ForumsWEPRCan we really trust math?

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Sssssnnaakke
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Sssssnnaakke
1,036 posts
Scribe

Ok I'm getting annoyed with people saying 0/0 is infinite. Zero groups of nothing equals well nothing. Yes on a graph it is -infinite and +infinite because how would you graph nothing? Or people saying that anything times zero equals so 0/0 can't be true. Because 0/0= (0)(x)=0. Well explain this then. If 0x1=0 and 0x2=0 then does 1=2?

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Infinity is defined as a number that permanently increases. It is not undefined. Undefined is a nonexistant or indeterminable number.


If it's permanently increasing that sounds like it would match the definition your giving for undefined.
Elephunk
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Elephunk
30 posts
Nomad

Yeah, ANYTHING divided by 0 is undefined, including 0/0.


Not true. Zero divided by itself is undefined, however, any real number divided by zero results in an infinite value.

If you really want to spice things up, why not question the imaginary number i, which is the square root of negative one? The number does not exist, but is expressed to make some operations and calculations possible.
Sssssnnaakke
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Sssssnnaakke
1,036 posts
Scribe

I think there are too many holes in the system of math. People gave up trying to figure out the mistakes. People need to start working and stop being lazy.Yes imaginary numbers are also problematic. Is it possible that zero is imaginary since you can't see it and it is well nothing.

Sssssnnaakke
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Sssssnnaakke
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http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XNlu9vNoWl8/TIVh7QXWVHI/AAAAAAAAAQk/QfsZ1rp1jXE/s1600/633584945109156823-trolling.jpeg

Programpro
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Programpro
562 posts
Nomad

If it's permanently increasing that sounds like it would match the definition your giving for undefined.


My definition applied to numbers. Infinity is defined as a process (sorry, didn't mean to say 'number' before) that always increases. It has a definition, so it is not undefined. It's not even a number.

for doing 0/0 equations, go look up L'hospitale.


You meant L'Hopital :P

Not true. Zero divided by itself is undefined, however, any real number divided by zero results in an infinite value.


"In ordinary (real number) arithmetic, the expression [a/0] has no meaning, as there is no number which, multiplied by 0, gives a. (Where aâ 0)"

This is commonly accepted math... YOU CANNOT DIVIDE BY ZERO. ANYTHING divided by zero is undefined.

I think there are too many holes in the system of math. People gave up trying to figure out the mistakes. People need to start working and stop being lazy.Yes imaginary numbers are also problematic. Is it possible that zero is imaginary since you can't see it and it is well nothing.


....

..Exactly what level of math are you in?
Programpro
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Programpro
562 posts
Nomad

Btw:

"On September 21, 1997, a divide by zero error on board the USS Yorktown (CG-48) Remote Data Base Manager brought down all the machines on the network, causing the ship's propulsion system to fail.[2]"

O_O

qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

look, 1/3=0.3r

2/3=0.6r

3/3=0.9r=1 as 1-0.9r=0.0r1 which is just zero as the zeros go on forever.

master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

Every one needs to stop bringing up the exact same proofs multiple times. We get that
1/3=.33 forever
2/3=.66 forever
3/3=1

Everyone doesn't need to point it out over and over again.

grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

If we can't trust math what else are we going to trust and if your smart enough math just makes sense such as 2+2=4.


Mathematics is a human construct based on definitions. We first have to define what numbers are, we have to define different operations etc.
So 2+2 doesn't necessary equal four. If you're calculating in GF(3) then 2+2=1
lightcrux
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lightcrux
622 posts
Peasant

0*1=0*2=0 but it does not imply 1 != 2


You're using the transitive property.


Whoops! My mistake, I meant "it does not imply 1=2".

But in any case, limits aren't real numbers


Hmm? How is that?
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

<------o-------->

pretend that is a straight line.... it means there is a point on the line everywhere except at the circle. that point can be nowhere... or it can be above or below the line at that particular spot on the graph... (same X, different Y) or vice versa (depending on the type of line.) the lines in question can be squigly lines... they can be straight lines... they can be diagnol, horizontal... or even verticle (usually teachers just go w/ lim as x approaches some number instead of Y just b/c its more confusing)

its saying that there is a continuous stream of points up until that circle at whatever particular point that may be. when you read the limit... as x approaches a # you read it as ... as you go from both sides and get closer to that point... whether its there or not... what point is it getting closer to. there are equations that go for each line... and if you use whatever the x approaches number is in that equation you get undefined... but if you use anything above or below that value in the equation you get something just on either side of where the limit should plot if it were a continual line. limits are absences of value on a graph... or undefined/indeterminate values. it'd be like asking to find the limit of (1/(x-5)) as x approaches 5

and they have to be otherwise connected....
no
---------------------o
ssssssssssssssssssssso--------------------------

the above isn't considered to be a limit... it has to be on the same y coordinate in this instance. savvy?

ignore the s's ... i just didn't remember if it'd wrap the text to fit... u get the picture

best i can come up w/... had calculus 3 years ago >_> ...hard to remember something from that long ago

lightcrux
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lightcrux
622 posts
Peasant

pretend that is a straight line...they can be diagnol, horizontal... or even verticle

its saying that there is a continuous stream of points...and if you use whatever the x approaches number is in that equation you get undefined...or undefined/indeterminate values


However, all that was cited, necessitates that limits be real numbers with the only exception of infinity. The Dedekind Cut defines real numbers from rational numbers. Hence, limits can be real numbers.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

honestly...i tried reading that... and all i got was confused and turned around w/ the end result being "wth did i just read???"... could you dumb it down for me?

Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

I like what you were doing... but I'm not sure that last bit was kosher enough for me... were you trying to say it infinitely approaches the value but never reaches it?

it'd have to be a ray or a line going in the positive direction to approach infinity... and going in the negative direction to approach negative infinity.

Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

forgive my double and my derp.... I forgot about asymptotes... 2 asymptotes both approaching the same value from either side can in fact approach infinity...

some of my friends used to say... "kiss my asymptote" in high school to agitate the teacher. kinda like saying kiss my asterisk if you see what I'm getting at. ...nerds and our word play.

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