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Sssssnnaakke
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Sssssnnaakke
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Ok I was just thinking about the Bible and what it says. It says that humans naturally sin so we can sin as much as we want as long as Jesus forgives us.This includes but not limited to You shall not murder.
7 âYou shall not commit adultery.
8 âYou shall not steal.
9 âYou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 âYou shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.â

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master565
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master565
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Nomad

No it doesn't mean to take, it means to want, desire. I'm guessing cover was a typo.


Oops again, your right.

No it doesn't mean to take, it means to want, desire. I'm guessing cover was a typo. And no it's not a stupid question since the last part would cover the rest of the list that was stated, making the list redundant.


People can find loopholes and say that the neighbors wife isn't actually his or something along those lines.

It probably was the current view when the bible was written but it doesn't hold relevance for today.


It probably wasn't. Without anything standing in their way, people could go steal and kill as they pleased. Today we have consequences such as jail.
314d1
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314d1
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No, it set many of the moral standards we have today, which means it did it's job (partly).


What morals did it set exactly? The only ones that I could have come up with that where actually taken from the old books is the rules regarding sexual intercourse, but other than that all the positive things that came out of it are human nature. Anyone would say that the negative things that you would rarely think of yourself would far out way the obvious actual good stuff. (The "Good Stuff" being also situational. For example, "Thought shalt not kill" is extremely situational, what if your defending yourself or your family from some guy with an axe?"

Well, jealousy can lead to actually stealing, so better to fight the problem at the source.


Or you could just fight the problem. Coveting is a cornerstone of capitalism, with out it the system would falter. And besides that, isn't your god a self proclaimed "Jealous god"? Wouldn't that mean that it was a good thing?
iMogwai
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iMogwai
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I'm guessing cover was a typo.


It was. R is right next to T, and since it's a real word it didn't give me a red squiggly line.

No, it set many of the moral standards we have today, which means it did it's job


People had moral standards before Christianity, and in places where Christianity never reached.

Well, jealousy can lead to actually stealing, so better to fight the problem at the source.


It's easier to control your actions than your emotions. Do you think anger should be banned because it could lead to violence, too?
Jefferysinspiration
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Jefferysinspiration
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IMogwai makes good points.

People did have standards before Christianity - Christianity didn't introduce morals into society.

Sssssnnaakke
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Sssssnnaakke
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Scribe

People did have standards before Christianity - Christianity didn't introduce morals into society.

Couldn't you say that about any religion lol
Zydrate
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Zydrate
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Couldn't you say that about any religion lol

Well yea, but her point remains.
Jefferysinspiration
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Jefferysinspiration
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Let me rephrase - Religion didn't introduce moral standards into society.

master565
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master565
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Nomad

What morals did it set exactly?


Don't steal, don't kill, don't commit adultery.

Or you could just fight the problem. Coveting is a cornerstone of capitalism, with out it the system would falter.


Why fight one piece of the problem when you can fight it as a whole?

And besides that, isn't your god a self proclaimed "Jealous god"? Wouldn't that mean that it was a good thing?[


I'm not even sure if you know what religion i am, but what do you mean by "a self proclaimed jealous god?"

It was. R is right next to T, and since it's a real word it didn't give me a red squiggly line.


Sorry, i thought you either misread it or you guessed the meaning.

People had moral standards before Christianity, and in places where Christianity never reached.


Yes, they had different morals though, and they could have been what we today would see as "immoral". Also, it wouldn't be Christianity, at the point of the 10 commandments it would be the Jews.

It's easier to control your actions than your emotions. Do you think anger should be banned because it could lead to violence, too?


It's either to control your actions if you can control your emotions. Besides for that, jealousy isn't an emotion, it's more of a feeling.

People did have standards before Christianity - Christianity didn't introduce morals into society.


Of course there were morals, I never said there weren't. The bible introduced new morals into society, many of which are the morals we hold today.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Don't steal, don't kill, don't commit adultery.


As pointed out we were able to arrive at those without the influence from the Bible's top ten ways to sin. In fact with out the don't kill one we wouldn't have lasted long enough as a social animal to write down those commandments.

Why fight one piece of the problem when you can fight it as a whole?


All your arguing for is a thought crime.


I'm not even sure if you know what religion i am, but what do you mean by "a self proclaimed jealous god?"


You seem to be accepting at least the Old Testament. It's part of top tens #1 hit.

(all NIV)
Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 5:9
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Deuteronomy 6:15
for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

Nahum 1:2
The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies.

Joshua 24:19
Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins.

Besides for that, jealousy isn't an emotion, it's more of a feeling.


I feel like face palming.
Emotion 2b of Merriam Websters
;a state of feeling

The bible introduced new morals into society, many of which are the morals we hold today.


Again many societies came up with those morals without the need to be introduced to the Bible or it's commandments.
314d1
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314d1
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Don't steal, don't kill, don't commit adultery.


The first two are obvious. Its not like Moses came along and people where like "What? Stealing and killing is bad? ****. There goes my weekends". Those are two obvious statements that are basic human nature. The third is a moral set, and it isn't exactly a positive trait.

Why fight one piece of the problem when you can fight it as a whole?


Because only one piece is the problem. Its like nuking an entire country to remove one man. And besides that, isn't "Don't Steal" already covered?

I'm not even sure if you know what religion i am, but what do you mean by "a self proclaimed jealous god?"


The abrahamic god calls himself a jealous god, quite proudly. And you seem to be a deist with a base on the abrahamic religions. So your god would say that.

Yes, they had different morals though, and they could have been what we today would see as "immoral". Also, it wouldn't be Christianity, at the point of the 10 commandments it would be the Jews.


Such as the immoral land of the ancient Greek? Never mind, it was a rather peaceful place where science was flourishing. There was, however, much gay sex. How horrible. Or what about the Native Americans of the time going around with *Shocked gasp* topless women? Actually many tribes where quite peaceful, far more peaceful than the Jewish population of that time. Actually, the only "New" things that where introduced all seem to revolve around sex.

It's either to control your actions if you can control your emotions. Besides for that, jealousy isn't an emotion, it's more of a feeling.


And apparently in this case you are supposed to do both?

Of course there were morals, I never said there weren't. The bible introduced new morals into society, many of which are the morals we hold today.


What morals did it introduce, exactly? Stone witches and necromancers? Sex is bad? Feel guilty for being human?
master565
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master565
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Nomad

You seem to be accepting at least the Old Testament. It's part of top tens #1 hit.


Can you also quote where it say not to be jealous? I feel like I have heard this before, but have never seen the actual quote.

I feel like face palming.
Emotion 2b of Merriam Websters
;a state of feeling


You got me there, I just don't see jealousy as an emotion. Apparently it's regarded as a "secondary emotion", meaning it's the feeling you experience after an emotion.

Again many societies came up with those morals without the need to be introduced to the Bible or it's commandments.


But the bible helped organize millions of people together to follow these set of morals, rather then just scattered societies. Even if they weren't the first, they were probably the biggest.

The first two are obvious. Its not like Moses came along and people where like "What? Stealing and killing is bad? ****. There goes my weekends". Those are two obvious statements that are basic human nature. The third is a moral set, and it isn't exactly a positive trait.


I'm not sure what you are even saying, but it sounds like you are saying that certain morals are human nature.

Because only one piece is the problem.


There is no need for jealousy and it leads to many problems such as stealing and murder so why not get rid of it?

Its like nuking an entire country to remove one man.


No it's not, the whole country isn't a problem, just the man is apparently.

And besides that, isn't "Don't Steal" already covered?


Yep, i don't know why that is.

Such as the immoral land of the ancient Greek? Never mind, it was a rather peaceful place where science was flourishing. There was, however, much gay sex. How horrible. Or what about the Native Americans of the time going around with *Shocked gasp* topless women? Actually many tribes where quite peaceful, far more peaceful than the Jewish population of that time. Actually, the only "New" things that where introduced all seem to revolve around sex.


Contradicting morals aren't worse morals. Besides for that, Greece didn't flourish until about 1000 years after the Jews escaped from Egypt, so this aren't about the same time, and the Jews weren't exactly violent at this time either, seeing as how they were either slaves or wandering a desert.

And apparently in this case you are supposed to do both?


I had a typo here, I meant "It's easier" not "it's either." Controlling emotions leads to controlling your actions so i guess I'll say yes.

What morals did it introduce, exactly? Stone witches and necromancers? Sex is bad? Feel guilty for being human?


Stone witches and necromancers isn't a moral, sex is bad isn't in the bible (maybe sex is sacred), and the last one isn't either a moral.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Can you also quote where it say not to be jealous? I feel like I have heard this before, but have never seen the actual quote.


I've heard it implied a few times such as with the don't covet bit.
There is this.

Psalm 37:1 (NIRV)
Don't be upset because of sinful people. Don't be jealous of those who do wrong.

Proverbs 3:31 (NIRV)
Don't be jealous of a man who hurts others. Don't choose any of his ways.

Anyway compare the previous quotes of God being jealous with this one.
1 Corinthians 3:3 (NIV)
You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?

But the bible helped organize millions of people together to follow these set of morals, rather then just scattered societies. Even if they weren't the first, they were probably the biggest.


Not really, Christianity sort of just seeped into a pre-existing large society. Once it got big enough it started taking them by force. Besides that's kind of meaningless to your previous argument.

I'm not sure what you are even saying, but it sounds like you are saying that certain morals are human nature.


Yes it is natural for social animals such as ourselves to have certain morals towards our group. We aren't even the only species to exhibit such behavior. For example piranha.
Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 29)

There is no need for jealousy and it leads to many problems such as stealing and murder so why not get rid of it?


Not always, I would even go as far as to say not even most of the time.

Stone witches and necromancers isn't a moral


It does say not to allow them to live i.e. kill them.

sex is bad isn't in the bible (maybe sex is sacred), and the last one isn't either a moral.


This depends on how and with who or what you have sex with.
iMogwai
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iMogwai
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What morals did it set exactly?
[quote]Don't steal, don't kill, don't commit adultery.
[/quote]

It's not like the ancient Greeks could just go around and stab whoever they wanted and other people would think it was fine. And most of Asia still isn't, and never has been, Christian. They still forbid those, and have for a long time.

And about the "Don't kill," isn't it funny that rule somehow doesn't imply if the people in charge want to invade another country? For example during the Crusades, the pope not only allowed, but supported the war. They also told sinners that they would be forgiven if they fought in the war. Yeah, if they sinned, they'd be forgiven if they sinned some more.

Christianity is just a bunch of hypocrisy, and the moral standards you claim it brought us existed before that religion did.
Sssssnnaakke
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Sssssnnaakke
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And if Christianity was soo good then why did it help start the Crusades which brought humans 100 years behind of what we could be at.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
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Shepherd

And if Christianity was soo good then why did it help start the Crusades which brought humans 100 years behind of what we could be at.


Actually, the Crusades helped to pull Western and Eastern Europe from the Dark Ages. Not only did it produce a middle class of travelers and merchants along it's path, it also threw back Roman and Greek knowledge into Europe, along with access to many Islamic inventions of the Abbasid Empire, along with paper, something the Muslims got from China. Furthermore, it gave them first site of gunpowder, something China was using to get their giant ships going off the shore -- which later lead to Europe making guns and conquering all of Africa.
Besides the whole gun making part, it propelled Europe into the Renaissance.
[With 100 years wasted due to the Black Plague]

Just saying, though.


But I have a question. Catholicism isn't the only form of Christianity, and personally I feel it's the most pointless because it required that need of Person to Pope to God contact -- so if the Pope is outright stupid or dumb, he results in insulting an entire religion and he can also basically do whatever he wants. I feel that it makes more sense judging Protestant actions. Catholicism makes the least sense out of all Christianity in a way.
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