If a child does something because they don't know any better, are they still wrong?
Bearing in mind that not many people in white society thought racism was wrong in the 1930s, could there be something we're doing today that would be considered wrong in 50, 70 or 100 years time?
This is a purely theological question. The answer ultimately comes down to opinion in our society. I personally believe it is impossible to answer this question because the world we live in has dismissed morality and embraced the idea that science has all the answers to everything and not just the physical world. I believe there is objective right and wrong. That objective right and wrong is defined by God, the creator of the universe.
That objective right and wrong is defined by God, the creator of the universe.
But then there's people like me, who don't believe in god. God was just another way to get right and wrong across to people, and the sermons and stuff are just to help them think that there really is some higher comand that brought right and wrong to them, not just other people.
I believe there is objective right and wrong. That objective right and wrong is defined by God, the creator of the universe
If your God defines what's wrong and right then it is subjective again, because it was a concious being who decided it. He had the choice to define what's wrong and what's right. Just sayin'...
Somewhat49 makes a good point. That is a great experiment in sociology. A lot of people believed in God in the past and believe in God today because of mob psychology(i.e. I'll do what the crowd is doing). This certainly helped religion along, but there is something deeper. I think most people today reject the idea of God because they don't want to be held accountable to anyone, especially a higher, all-knowing power. grimml, you're right two. But the religious like me will tell you that God's opinion isn't subjective because he is God and does not think nor act like a human would. Ultimately, I just want to make it abundantly obvious that religion is not about the rituals, its about the relationship with God.
No, I don't think we do. But most of us know that if your doing the right thing, more then likely people will be happy about it, And for the wrong, the exact opposite.
Ultimately, I just want to make it abundantly obvious that religion is not about the rituals, its about the relationship with God.
In the end, it's nothing more than a relationship with yourself. If there was an objective right and wrong, why don't we know about it? And don't tell me it's in the bible, because it doesn't give a unique and precise notion of right and wrong. The bible isn't to take literally, it must be interpreted and taken metaphorically, or so many say. As soon as that, any objectivity gets lost. It's not god telling right and wrong through the bible; it's the parents teaching their kids about their rights and wrongs using the bible as means, it's the pastor preaching his right and wrong using the bible as means.
right and wrong isn't something that can easily be interpreted. the bible does hold stories that we can use to model our lives after, but in the end, it is up to us to define our own sense of morality. sure we can say that god has told us everything we need to know about right and wrong, but there are some places where he left blank and told us "you can decide that for yourself". the most obvious form of this is the ammount of soda we consume. we can figure out ourselves that drinking too much of it is bad.
sometimes people think the bible holds all the things we can or can't do, and so they abuse something when it isn't in there because god doesn't say anything about it. they basically say "if god doesn't say anything bad about it, then I can do it as much as I want!" that is a bad idea to have.
there are also those who believe that if god doesn't exist, then there is no morality and we can basically do ******s and blow all we want. once again, another bad idea.
in the end, it is our job as a society to decide what is right and wrong, because things have changed from the times of the romans, and with change comes new conumdrums that we ourselves have to answer.
We can clearly debate and answer these questions without theology. Given this it's not necessarily the realm of theology. I would even go as far as to say it's just something theology attempts to hijack, but I won't go into that to much.
That objective right and wrong is defined by God, the creator of the universe.
That would still be subjective.
Objective is independent of the mind (any mind). So if morals are the result of some deity than they aren't independent of that deities mind, thus not objective.
What you mean by that? Do you mean like insane people? And if you mean blowing up stuff, it usualy goes agianst youself also because it's hurting what otherwise could've been used by you so there is already something telling you not to do it.
when I said that, I meant that people, without a higher power to govern them, will think they aren't accountable for anything, and will break every law imagineable and take every drug in existence.
when I said that, I meant that people, without a higher power to govern them, will think they aren't accountable for anything, and will break every law imagineable and take every drug in existence.
But there's still the fear of wasting your life, and when you do that you will prolly go to jail since its not hard to spot someone high.
[why don't we know about it? And don't tell me it's in the bible, because it doesn't give a unique and precise notion of right and wrong. The bible isn't to take literally, it must be interpreted and taken metaphorically, or so many say. As soon as that, any objectivity gets lost.] HahiHa, I agree with your observation that immediatley followed this quote. The bible is frequently used in just that way. But the bible, just like the church is a human institution; therefore it is flawed. As humans we have a flawed view of the perfect. That's why its so easy to poke holes in biblical morality. God explained as much as he needed two. Its when we come in and demand we know everything and be equal with God that the problems start. Now, the whole bible shouldn't be taken metaphorically. The whole bible shouldn't be taken literally either. There is a balance that needs to be struck. You'll disagree with me, but I do believe the bible provides a precise notion of right and wrong. It's really about how you read it. I think if you want to read it the best way in my opinion, you need to read it knowing that God is Love but he will tell you when your wrong and discipline you as well.
HahiHa, I agree with your observation that immediatley followed this quote. The bible is frequently used in just that way. But the bible, just like the church is a human institution; therefore it is flawed. As humans we have a flawed view of the perfect. That's why its so easy to poke holes in biblical morality. God explained as much as he needed two. Its when we come in and demand we know everything and be equal with God that the problems start.
To answer that, I recommend reading what Bladerunner wrote just after my previous post.
It's really about how you read it. I think if you want to read it the best way in my opinion, you need to read it knowing that God is Love but he will tell you when your wrong and discipline you as well.
Why should I read the bible with a preconception of any kind? My opinion is that the best way to read it is with an open, critical mind. And I don't mean critical in a bad way, just that you should be able to think for yourself. And I've never been told by god if I do something right or wrong...
You make a good point. Its good to go through literature with a critical mind. But that probably where we will disagree because often times what the religious will say is that the bible is special and therefore held to a higher standard than all other literature. We'll tell you that you aren't just reading some guy's thoughts on society; we'd tell you that the bible is the word of God therefore you should read it considering who the author is. But that's purely the religious point of view. Personally, I'd say the bible shouldn't be just read for the sake of reading it because then you are going by logic. The bible has pieces that defy logic and go into the divine, hence it's hard to read if you are reading from a logical point of view because there will come parts that are just beyond human understanding.
