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Wikiwikiweb
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Wikiwikiweb
47 posts
Nomad

Since the community seems mature here and I hope for a good debate, I made this thread. If you want to debate me, feel free to. Anyways I have a few things that in a way disproves evolution. I know things get traits over time, but I don't believe a one-celled organism created me and other species.

1. How can we have such complex organisms like humans if we came from monkeys?
2. How can teeth evolve from scales? If they did, then how did we eat when we had scales in our mouths?
3. If we evolved over 50 million years ago, then how come we didn't turn into crisp? It's been proven that over time the sun loses its energy, so if it had energy 50 million years ago, and our positioning in the solar system, we would be toasted by the sun's intense heat.

  • 31 Replies
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

1. How can we have such complex organisms like humans if we came from monkeys?

We and modern monkeys are derived from a single species.

2. How can teeth evolve from scales? If they did, then how did we eat when we had scales in our mouths?

What is your source for this information and what makes you think the membrane / dermis of organisms would be used as the tool for eating?

3. If we evolved over 50 million years ago, then how come we didn't turn into crisp? It's been proven that over time the sun loses its energy, so if it had energy 50 million years ago, and our positioning in the solar system, we would be toasted by the sun's intense heat.

It slowly releases energy. That's why it hasn't completely dissipated and well... yeah.
Proven that it would have done that 50,000,000 years ago? Can you provide a source and / or some worthy evidence that supports this as well?

Our positioning in the solar system, by the way, could've quite easily changed.

I know things get traits over time, but I don't believe a one-celled organism created me and other species.

Variation occured with unicellular organisms to "gain an upperhand" - a biological arms race, being as energy is limited (hello, second law of thermodynamics) and sustainance / survival is reliant on being dominant, as well all know.

- H
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

1. How can we have such complex organisms like humans if we came from monkeys?


We're not all that different from monkeys you realize...right? Main differences are height, lack of hair, intelligence, walking upright, and that's pretty much it for the superficial things.

2. How can teeth evolve from scales? If they did, then how did we eat when we had scales in our mouths?


I don't even know where you got this idea.

3. If we evolved over 50 million years ago, then how come we didn't turn into crisp? It's been proven that over time the sun loses its energy, so if it had energy 50 million years ago, and our positioning in the solar system, we would be toasted by the sun's intense heat.


Uh...I think you're misunderstanding a few things.

1) The sun is a sphere. It radiates all its energy in every direction, not just at the earth.

2) Energy doesn't "build up" like that, it disperses.

3) 50 million years ago it would have had more energy yes, but that doesn't mean it had 50million times more or anything near that scale.

Also, why bother to stop at 50 million when the earth is 5 billion years old? Although life didn't first appear until around 4 billion years ago.

but I don't believe a one-celled organism created me and other species.


It didn't. It reproduced, and slightly changed. Now make this happen billions of times a day for billions of years, and each variation is producing yet more variations, you start to see more complex life, which continues to evolve.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

1. How can we have such complex organisms like humans if we came from monkeys?


This question doesn't even make any sense. Are you saying monkeys aren't complex organisms? The big differences between us and other primates is a overly developed brain and a fused chromosome at chromosome number 2. Beyond that there isn't much of a difference.

2. How can teeth evolve from scales? If they did, then how did we eat when we had scales in our mouths?


The same way any other feature evolved. They became more specialized for the task they were being used for because that improvement gave that species enough of an improvement to pass that trait on to the next generation. This is the basic concept of natural selection which drive evolution.
Today we have observe how different genes can be expressed in different ways. For example the spots on a butterflies wings are created from the same genes that make the legs of it's juvenile caterpillar form. The genes simply take on a new role. In this same process it can cause one feature to take on a completely new role through evolution.

3. If we evolved over 50 million years ago, then how come we didn't turn into crisp? It's been proven that over time the sun loses its energy, so if it had energy 50 million years ago, and our positioning in the solar system, we would be toasted by the sun's intense heat.


crisp?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/junk/e6c8bae588cab4ac_Kashi-GoLean-Crisp.jpg

NO we wouldn't have been toasted, just because it had more fuel long ago doesn't mean it was releasing far more energy to such a degree.

Now questions fro you.

With creationism please explain the existence of ring species?
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/irwin.html

Explain how we can find the exact same pseudogene in the same location in multiple species?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZvTmgCk1Lo

Explain why we find chromosome number 2 in humans is a fused gene, just as we would predict if evolution were true and we did evolve from a common primate ancestor from other existing primates?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3O6KYPmEw

You do also realize we have observed evolution of multiple species? So basically your trying to disprove some thing we have seen happen first hand in both nature and the lab.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080417112433.htm
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/23/7899.full
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Now questions fro you.
With creationism please explain the existence of ring species?
Explain how we can find the exact same pseudogene in the same location in multiple species?
Explain why we find chromosome number 2 in humans is a fused gene, just as we would predict if evolution were true and we did evolve from a common primate ancestor from other existing primates?
You do also realize we have observed evolution of multiple species? So basically your trying to disprove some thing we have seen happen first hand in both nature and the lab.


*jumps up and down with hand in the air* I know! I know! Pick me, pick me!!!

(Goddidit) A+
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

As for the teeth from scales, he might be talking about something like this.

"The evolution of teeth in primitive fishes from structures similar to the dermal denticles in the skin of modern sharks contributed importantly to the success of vertebrates. Teeth of the lineage of fishes that led on to amphibians and higher vertebrates were mostly similar simple pointed cones useful in capturing and holding prey. Little significant advancement was made before the Permian when the teeth of some pelycosauran repitles began to differentiate by the appearance of caninelike fangs. Further differentiation followed among the mammal-like therapsid reptiles but only the three-cusped teeth of some of them seem possible precursors to any of the more complex molar teeth of mammals. Mesozoic mammals are known chiefly from several types of tiny teeth. Among them simple triangular teeth seem to be ancestral to the molars of Tertiary mammals. Modernized triangular teeth with three main cusps first appeared in the Cretaceous Period. From the Paleocene onward teeth provide important evidence concerning the evolution of many mammalian lineages. Commonly the number of teeth decreased and the molars were progressively specialized functionally in relation to feeding habits. Specialization progressed from small primitive carnivores in two directions, (1) to more efficient carnivores with enlarged cutting teeth, and (2) to herbivores with teeth adapted to grinding harsh grasses. The latter passed through an omnivorous stage with square low-cusped teeth like those of pigs and humans." -J. Marvin Weller (Evolution Of Mammalian Teeth)

Dragonblaze052
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Dragonblaze052
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Peasant

1. Since when are monkeys not complex? They have a social heirarchy, a well developed digestive system capable of digesting diverse substances, a tail that can be manipulated with an astounding degree of dexterity and their brain is far from primitive.

2. There is evidence via Dunkleosteous that teeth evolved from bone.

3. I'm not quite sure you understand exactly how the sun works. It is near its midlife now, so it wasn't all that much hotter 50 million years ago.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

I suppose I should ask. Could one of you trying to disprove evolution provide a definition of evolution?
This is so we can know if you even know what your talking about to begin with. I would think if your goal is to disprove something you should at least know what your trying to disprove.

I also have to wonder why you are focusing on disproving a theory instead of trying to gather supporting evidence for what ever it is you do thing fits?

JamminDeV
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JamminDeV
39 posts
Nomad

Ok I'm not really a science "nut" but didn't we learn to walk on two legs because we walked for so long we gradually started to walk on two feet, also elephants are being born without tusks, I'm not sure if is evolution because I don't think poaching been around for millions of years, if you know please quote me

Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

I'm not sure if is evolution because I don't think poaching been around for millions of years, if you know please quote me


It's natural selection. All the elephants with tusks are being poached, and so the elephants with the genes to grow tusks are not reproducing. Thus more elephants without tusks are being born. Natural selection is a major mechanism behind evolution.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

didn't we learn to walk on two legs because we walked for so long we gradually started to walk on two feet


crocodiles have been around longer then we (humans) are right? they aint walking on 2 legs.
Turtelman1234
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Turtelman1234
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Nomad

but I don't believe a one-celled organism created me and other species.


I think you need to go back to both middle and high school Biology. It's a wonderful thing called Cell Division. It's what heals up the wounds on or under your skin, it's what made up your organs and keeps 'em running, and most importantly, it's what made you when your mom and dad decided to have kid/kids. Hell, it's even what causes the many forms of cancer if it gets out of control.

If they did, then how did we eat when we had scales in our mouths?


Last I checked, scales can be sharp enough to cut through flesh, That's one reason why you take the scales off when you eat fish unless you want your throat cut to bits.

If we evolved over 50 million years ago, then how come we didn't turn into crisp? It's been proven that over time the sun loses its energy, so if it had energy 50 million years ago, and our positioning in the solar system, we would be toasted by the sun's intense heat


Again, you need to go back to Biology, specifically the section that focuses on Ecology. That's what's called Adaptations. Ever heard of "Adapt and Evolve"? Predators attack prey for food so they prey adapts to either run fast or to defend themselves (examples: the Triceratops, Stegosaurus, and the Puffer Fish). So one can only infer that animals can also adapt to the environment around them. Take the Jack Rabbit, for example. Those giant ears? Those aren't tumors, and they're definitely not a deformity that God gave them one day when the Rabbits did something to piss him off, those massive ears take in the sunlight to help keep it cooled off when it gets too hot in the freaking desert.

How can we have such complex organisms like humans if we came from monkeys?


I've always been told monkeys were smart? Like what I think Dragonblaze said earlier, they have developed a social heirarchy. They can be taught sign language. They can express emotions better than any animal I can think of. We didn't send monkeys to space because we thought they were stupid.

also elephants are being born without tusks, I'm not sure if is evolution because I don't think poaching been around for millions of years, if you know please quote me


I see what you're getting at, but a better example would be the life of a Frog.
iMogwai
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iMogwai
2,027 posts
Peasant

crocodiles have been around longer then we (humans) are right? they aint walking on 2 legs.


That could be because walking on two legs wouldn't be optimal for the environment in which they live. What is best for one species at one place may not be best for another species somewhere else.

I believe the reason why humans decided to walk on two feet is because of our opposable thumbs and lack of natural weapons, which in turn made us need our arms to hold a weapon with which we could defend ourselves from predators. Crocodiles, however, have short arms and huge freaking teeth, and wouldn't benefit from fighting with a stick instead.
Masterforger
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Masterforger
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Peasant

Aye, good point. Very good point. We evolved because of our extra special digits. We don't need giant teeth when we know how to build a machine gun. If not use it.

JamminDeV
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JamminDeV
39 posts
Nomad

crocodiles have been around longer then we (humans) are right? they aint walking on 2 legs.
They use too stand up straight but then adapted to living as a aquatic animal.
Highfire
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Highfire
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Nomad

I believe the reason why humans decided to walk on two feet is because of our opposable thumbs and lack of natural weapons, which in turn made us need our arms to hold a weapon with which we could defend ourselves from predators.

Tall grass was present in fields, when our old ancestors simply exiled themselves from the forest they would've needed to get up from their knuckles and such. That's one of the reasons humans have the best peripheral vision - we could see through the fields and thus long distances for hunting. ^^

- H
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