2:-Back to the topic. The UN sanctioned two states, one for the Jews and the other for the Palestinians, the alternative would have been a guerilla war and more bloodshed. Now, immediately after independence, the Palestinians attacked the Israelis with the other Arabs. The Jews fought back and grabbed land. So who provoked and started it? The Palestinians.
Except thats their land.
The problem with your argument is that you constantly refuse to give a rational and solid argument and reasons apart from stating oh ''It's their land'' blah blah.
1 :- I gave u a link on pg #11 2: - Let me put it this way:- Suppose that u r living peacefully in USA. Spanish come and take over saying that they discovered America. Will u accept that? No, I don't think u will. Same goes for Palestine, UN or no UN Jews are invaders as far as Palestinians are concerned plain and simple. I think I made my point clear and answered most of the arguments on last two pages.If have not, point it out.
If you actually read properly, I was referring originally to Moslem states that recognise Israel, not Palestine. I hope that clarifies things with you, and that you pay more attention to what I stated.
Suppose that u r living peacefully in USA. Spanish come and take over saying that they discovered America. Will u accept that? No, I don't think u will. Same goes for Palestine, UN or no UN Jews are invaders as far as Palestinians are concerned plain and simple
The Jews were already living there when the Palestinians/Muhammad came. So who were the invaders? And to put it in another way, the portions set out for the Jews already had significant Jewish populations native to Palestine, i.e Palestinian Jews.
I think I made my point clear and answered most of the arguments on last two pages.If have not, point it out.
Except you haven't, because in your last two pages, your argument for Palestine and non-recognition of Israel consisted solely of (I quote you)
Except thats their land.
Or one can describe it as the biggest blunder in UN's history by giving jews a state on the land which was not their .
Which does not for one moment justify why Israel shouldn't exist, and is just a statement that they cannot, not a reason. Furthermore, we have already stated time and time again that the Jews were there first, if you wanted to argue by that line.
The issue lies in the fact that both parties are voiced by extremists who are not willing to compromise reasonably. I would expect more responsibility from the Israelis as they obviously have the upper hand in terms of political power and technology, and I am disappointed to see instances of abuse of power on their part. I sympathize with and admire the Palestinian underdog standing up in the face of a powerful nation like Israel. I base the claim on the fact that Israel has 273 Jewish-only settlements on usurped Palestinian land, while Palestine does not own any settlements on Israeli land (PeaceNow 2011).
The imbalance of power in the region has led to callous acts of injustice against the Palestinians. Statistics show that 24,813 Palestinian homes have been destroyed since 1967, and not a single Israeli home has been destroyed by Palestinians. (Source: Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories)
So, how could the Israelis perform these acts of injustice with no consequence? They have been abusing a loophole in the Fourth Geneva Convention. An article in the GCIV states that the occupying state must not destroy any property owned by civilians in the occupied territory. However, there is an exception to the rule, it continues to say "except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations." The destruction of tens of thousands of Palestinian homes has been justified by claiming that their policy falls into this exception. One could have easily predicted this outcome when the GCIV uses vague terms such as "military operations", I guess they put a little too much faith in Israel not to abuse its power.
Now, I am not targeting the Israeli people, just the power-hungry government that would consider annexing even more of what little land the Palestinians have left. The Israeli people want peace, the government does not. They throw out "eace" proposals such as the one in Camp David almost 12 years ago with ridiculous conditions for Palestinians to adhere to, which essentially strips the Palestinians of whatever control they have left in whatever land they have left. They knew well that the Palestinians would not agree to a proposal that would not even allow Palestinians who have left to seek refuge elsewhere a right of return to their country!
Now, I am not targeting the Israeli people, just the power-hungry government that would consider annexing even more of what little land the Palestinians have left. The Israeli people want peace, the government does not. They throw out "eace" proposals such as the one in Camp David almost 12 years ago with ridiculous conditions for Palestinians to adhere to, which essentially strips the Palestinians of whatever control they have left in whatever land they have left. They knew well that the Palestinians would not agree to a proposal that would not even allow Palestinians who have left to seek refuge elsewhere a right of return to their country!
Well, said though you must not forget to blame too the Palestinian extremist groups like Hamas and Fatah who launch rockets into the homes of innocent Israelis and continue engaging in acts of terror. We must also not forget that two out of three, and arguably all of the wars that have been fought over such an issue have been started by the Arabs and Palestinians.
That being said, I believe that common Israeli or Palestinian aren't so bigoted as to not accept one another. The common man is like you and me, people who just want to carry on with their own lives in peace. It's the bigots and extremists that need to be put down. On both sides.
And just to add on. Camp David didn't fail entirely, since the agreement was also to try and foster Egyptian-Israeli relations and that it stopped Egypt from being an enemy of Israel and funding arms to Palestinian terrorists. In a way, by taking itself out, it reduced the complexity of the game, though they sadly didn't do much about Palestine.
Which does not for one moment justify why Israel shouldn't exist, and is just a statement that they cannot, not a reason. Furthermore, we have already stated time and time again that the Jews were there first, if you wanted to argue by that line.
And I proved that they were not the first.phalistinians(Nonmuslim though)inhabited this land B4 them.More over, Try using ur head and u will understand my answers.
The Jews were already living there when the Palestinians/Muhammad came. So who were the invaders? And to put it in another way, the portions set out for the Jews already had significant Jewish populations native to Palestine, i.e Palestinian Jews
Give a source for ur claim as far as I know they were in minority at that time Until europeans jews were exported(or what ever) here.More over You are confusing b/w Islam and palestinian ethinicity. BTW When muslims conqured Jeruselum, they took it from christians.
If you actually read properly, I was referring originally to Moslem states that recognise Israel, not Palestine. I hope that clarifies things with you, and that you pay more attention to what I stated.
oh u mean when I said
Rest of the muslim world supports palestine bcoz
in answer of which u said
Egypt, Jordan, Turkey have already stepped out, so the correct term would be ''Some Muslim countries''
and i said
Yeah out of 64 (correct me if i am wrong muslim countries three step out (just officially)Even one one them is a secular state (officially)
and u said
Yes I am going to correct you. There are 57 Muslim states, of which 0 have already offered recognition. Amongst the rest, most of them are neutral to this.
and I said
wrong, 128 countries recognize it and at least 3 of them are muslim(I did not read whole list.
and u said
My bad 10 countries.
And did you read wrongly? Because I clearly said 57 Muslim states, and have never made reference to discussing whether other countries recognize it.
[b]And u want me to believe that u r stupid enough to think we were talking about Israel.
Well, said though you must not forget to blame too the Palestinian extremist groups like Hamas and Fatah who launch rockets into the homes of innocent Israelis and continue engaging in acts of terror. We must also not forget that two out of three, and arguably all of the wars that have been fought over such an issue have been started by the Arabs and Palestinians.
That being said, I believe that common Israeli or Palestinian aren't so bigoted as to not accept one another. The common man is like you and me, people who just want to carry on with their own lives in peace. It's the bigots and extremists that need to be put down. On both sides.
And just to add on. Camp David didn't fail entirely, since the agreement was also to try and foster Egyptian-Israeli relations and that it stopped Egypt from being an enemy of Israel and funding arms to Palestinian terrorists. In a way, by taking itself out, it reduced the complexity of the game, though they sadly didn't do much about Palestine.
U Just want them surrender to the aggressors dont u? But I can assure this aint gonna happen. As long as a single muslim is alive on this planet Palestine conflict will b there. Unless Israel seizes to exist.
And I proved that they were not the first.phalistinians(Nonmuslim though)inhabited this land B4 them.More over, Try using ur head and u will understand my answers.
phalistinians? No such term. Furthermore, we proved Caanites lived there first. Who were proto-Semitic. I.e Ancestors of Jews. Perhaps you missed that whole chunk that me and Master discussed?
Yeah out of 64 (correct me if i am wrong muslim countries three step out (just officially)Even one one them is a secular state (officially)
Yes I am going to correct you. There are 57 Muslim states, of which 0 have already offered recognition. Amongst the rest, most of them are neutral to this.
You were referring to how the whole Muslim world supports Palestine. And I then started talking about which Muslim country who recognized Israel, and I mentioned Turkey, Jordan and Egypt. Then I corrected myself and found out ten recognised Israel. I was assuming you were smart enough to follow that argument. But no. You some how thought I was discussing the Palestinian state.
BTW When muslims conqured Jeruselum, they took it from christians.
Whom the Romans took from the Jews before they [Romans] became Christians. Which shows the Jews were first.
they were in minority at that time
The areas given to the Jews had Jewish majority. It was a fair split. Until the Palestinians decided to kill the Jews. Source.
U Just want them surrender to the aggressors dont u? But I can assure this aint gonna happen. As long as a single muslim is alive on this planet Palestine conflict will b there. Unless Israel seizes to exist.
A) Don't shove words in my mouth. I didn't say ''surrender''. What I said was that extremists on both sides must be booted from power.
B) Ten Muslim states already recognize Israel. Which makes your claim of every single Muslim as hollow.
And what your post shows is how bigoted you are. I sympathise with the Palestinians just as much as I do for the Israelis, but if people are going to point guns at each other and try to wipe them out, then it shows how immature, narrow-minded, violent and vile that person is.
And just to add on. Camp David didn't fail entirely, since the agreement was also to try and foster Egyptian-Israeli relations and that it stopped Egypt from being an enemy of Israel and funding arms to Palestinian terrorists. In a way, by taking itself out, it reduced the complexity of the game, though they sadly didn't do much about Palestine.
You're talking about the 1978 Camp David Accords, I was referring to the 2000 proposal.
That being said, I believe that common Israeli or Palestinian aren't so bigoted as to not accept one another. The common man is like you and me, people who just want to carry on with their own lives in peace. It's the bigots and extremists that need to be put down. On both sides.
Couldn't agree more.
Well, said though you must not forget to blame too the Palestinian extremist groups like Hamas and Fatah who launch rockets into the homes of innocent Israelis and continue engaging in acts of terror.
I overlooked it because the acts of violence are prominently carried out by Israelis against Palestinians. Do not forget that the majority of Palestinians are unarmed, with the exception of the extremist groups you have mentioned. There has been ~60,000 Palestinians injured by Israelis, and ~10,000 injuries to Israelis by Palestinians since 2000. With half of the Israeli injuries labelled "light injuries", and a much larger percentage of Palestinian injuries marked as "ermanent disability".
These numbers are taken from The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
We must also not forget that two out of three, and arguably all of the wars that have been fought over such an issue have been started by the Arabs and Palestinians.
I was a little shocked at the ignorance of this statement. How do you base these assumptions?
Israel exhibited acts of ethnic cleansing in its early years that shocked the world and even the Jewish community, such as the Deir Yassin instance in which Palestinians were lined up against a wall and shot. I'm talking about men, women and children here.
I'm not saying the Palestinians are all saints, but when a military force such as Israel's commits acts like that against powerless people, it is difficult for these people to forgive and forget. All I'm saying is try to take both perspectives into consideration.
Palestine was resisting the establishment of Israel through protests, but that does not justify the massacres that ensued. Israel is in a position of power and should therefore exercise constraint and tolerance instead of striking back tenfold.
You're talking about the 1978 Camp David Accords, I was referring to the 2000 proposal.
Mea culpa.
I overlooked it because the acts of violence are prominently carried out by Israelis against Palestinians. Do not forget that the majority of Palestinians are unarmed, with the exception of the extremist groups you have mentioned. There has been ~60,000 Palestinians injured by Israelis, and ~10,000 injuries to Israelis by Palestinians since 2000. With half of the Israeli injuries labelled "light injuries", and a much larger percentage of Palestinian injuries marked as "ermanent disability".
Yes, but a life lost, is a life lost and I'm not going to attach more weight to the side that loses more men. Both sides are to blame equally, the Israelis for being obstinate and attacking civilian areas just to get at the extremists, and the Palestinians for being stubborn and sparking three wars with terror campaigns. That said, I must stress that it's mostly the intolerant bigots and governments are at fault.
I was a little shocked at the ignorance of this statement. How do you base these assumptions?
Israel exhibited acts of ethnic cleansing in its early years that shocked the world and even the Jewish community, such as the Deir Yassin instance in which Palestinians were lined up against a wall and shot. I'm talking about men, women and children here.
Evidence at cleansing needed. It's also not an assumption that the Palestinians started the two/three wars first. They physically started the war, The 1948 War, Six-Day War (Disputable), 1973 War. I must clarify my muddled statement of them starting the war. Both sides had ample reason to be angry with each other, so in a sense, both were responsible for it. What I was getting at was that the Palestinians attacked first.
I'm not saying the Palestinians are all saints, but when a military force such as Israel's commits acts like that against powerless people, it is difficult for these people to forgive and forget. All I'm saying is try to take both perspectives into consideration.
I did. But don't forget Hamas opens fire on Israeli citizens too. Or the Olympic massacre. Or Lod Airport massacre.
Palestine was resisting the establishment of Israel through protests, but that does not justify the massacres that ensued. Israel is in a position of power and should therefore exercise constraint and tolerance instead of striking back tenfold.
Before recently, in the 1940s-1960s Israel was the David and the Arab world the Goliath who kept hammering away at it.
Israel has to attempt to stop such attacks, but it is unfortunate that the militants hide in refugee camps. If they don't pursue, their own citizens get killed. I'm at a dilemma here.
You were referring to how the whole Muslim world supports Palestine. And I then started talking about which Muslim country who recognized Israel, and I mentioned Turkey, Jordan and Egypt. Then I corrected myself and found out ten recognised Israel. I was assuming you were smart enough to follow that argument. But no. You some how thought I was discussing the Palestinian state.
Did u ever wrote something like "turkey jordan etc support israel"?
The areas given to the Jews had Jewish majority. It was a fair split. Until the Palestinians decided to kill the Jews. Source.
Yeah and majority of them was who immigerated from europe. And forcefully colonised with the help of britishs.
Whom the Romans took from the Jews before they [Romans] became Christians. Which shows the Jews were first.
and the jews took from natives I.e palestinians.(source :- a book I read long ago)
A) Don't shove words in my mouth. I didn't say ''surrender''. What I said was that extremists on both sides must be booted from power.
B) Ten Muslim states already recognize Israel. Which makes your claim of every single Muslim as hollow.
And what your post shows is how bigoted you are. I sympathise with the Palestinians just as much as I do for the Israelis, but if people are going to point guns at each other and try to wipe them out, then it shows how immature, narrow-minded, violent and vile that person is.
Dont expect cheers from me when u call some freedom fighter extremist. And that every muslim statement was a metaphor. I think u r some kind pacifist or something. Remember this not every conflict be resolved by force and neither can every conflict b resolved by talking.
Did u ever wrote something like "turkey jordan etc support israel"?
Admittedly I didn't, but it was implied strongly.
Yeah and majority of them was who immigerated from europe. And forcefully colonised with the help of britishs.
Most came after the partition was proposed or rumored.
Dont expect cheers from me when u call some freedom fighter extremist.
I wasn't expecting any. An extremist is one who carries out terror attacks and believes only in extreme values, i.e destroying Israel. I have no qualms with freedom fighters, people who protest for Palestine peacefully. I have qualms with people who use guns and violence.
I think u r some kind pacifist or something.
Wow, that was a really tough one to guess. You say it as though it's a bad thing.
and the jews took from natives I.e palestinians.(source :- a book I read long ago)
Quote book or again no cigar. Jews descended from the Israelites, who can be traced back as far as the 13th Century BC. So who got there first?
not every conflict be resolved by force and neither can every conflict b resolved by talking.
Has fifty years of bloodshed proved futility? Not to you. If they put more energy into talking, breakthroughs could be made.
