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Forums → WEPR → Atheism is bad...?

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Pacmanpwner
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Pacmanpwner
181 posts
Nomad

Well, a few days ago, we were doing a project in my history class. It was about the middle ages, and the crusades between Muslims and Christians. When one of the group members started asking what each of our religions were, I said, 'I don't know'. I really do know, I'm Atheist. But, my other friend said Atheist outright. And the member that asked, said, 'Oh, I'm sorry for you.'
Later on, it spread that my friend was an atheist, and my bestfriend said, 'I can't believe he's Atheist. That's so bad.' Of course, I automatically questioned this. He said not bad, but he couldn't explain it. I don't think I'm a bad person. I don't think my friend is a bad person.

So, now I ask all of you, is being Atheist considered bad, looking at it from a neutral standpoint.

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Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

I thought there was an entire disscussion about how nobody is a good person because of religion. And that people already have their own morals with or without religion.


The point is that your morals are the religions morals. Whether or not you had those morals beforehand is irrelevant, because they are one and the same.

People do already have their own morals and they won't follow something they don't believe in. However, people DO get their morals from religion first quite often, or from their parents who got theirs from that religion.

Perhaps a better way to explain it is that while people have their own morals, they also have their religion's morals. Even if they didn't follow that religion, they might still believe it's wrong to have premarital sex, but they would no longer believe it's wrong to say, blasphemy God or that homosexuality is bad, because their religion was the entire reason for them thinking it was wrong.
sparkbug
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sparkbug
4 posts
Nomad

Actully no one can answer that. For there is no good or evil its all about point of view. Some chirstians do bad becuse they think god told them to. like in 2000 a guy killed a camp of boy scouts becuse he thought god told him to. In our eyes he was evil. But to him he was a hero. So its all about perspective.and also neurality is almost dead now.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

.and also neurality is almost dead now.


Since neurality is not a word...I assume you mean neutrality?

For there is no good or evil its all about point of view.


And seeing as how the only common point of view we have is soceity, soceity decides as a whole what is good and what is evil.
gamer66618
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gamer66618
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Nomad

People should not do good because they want a reward. People should do good because it's the right thing to do.
*sigh* if only that is the way that people think. Unfortunately, not everybody does and you still have some people who want a reward like going to heaven that is why the Taliban do suicide bombing to go to heaven.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

It would be a more common way of thinking if all pretenses of religion were abandoned and people actually had to think about what they wanted to do with their life instead of having it decided for them.

BritHennerz
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BritHennerz
408 posts
Farmer

Atheism is sometimes frowned upon by 'the faithful' because we're the only people not to have faith in a religion. They say we're faithless, well I say we're not faithless, we just have faith in other things rather than a floating dead guy.

gamer66618
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gamer66618
274 posts
Nomad

It would be a more common way of thinking if all pretenses of religion were abandoned and people actually had to think about what they wanted to do with their life instead of having it decided for them.
Yeah, but humans can't decide for themselves. You always get some that do bad things, hence the reason why they have invented heaven and hell in the medieval ages to promote good behaviour (or their equivelent thereof...). That's why religion can sometimes be considered a good thing...
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Regent

It would be a more common way of thinking if all pretenses of religion were abandoned and people actually had to think about what they wanted to do with their life instead of having it decided for them.

I'd be in favor of that too, but it would probably lead to a huge mess due to a lot of confused and unoriented people.

Yeah, but humans can't decide for themselves. You always get some that do bad things, hence the reason why they have invented heaven and hell in the medieval ages to promote good behaviour (or their equivelent thereof...). That's why religion can sometimes be considered a good thing...

Reading what I just wrote above, you will notice I partly agree with that. Why partly? There are people capable of thinking for themselves, not all are sheeps. If all people were like that, religion would only be a good thing in matter of orientation if it was true (if there was a non-human entity to guide them). This is improbable, the guidelines have been set up by humans for humans. Since it doesn't need a deity for that, it also doesn't need a religion for that. Sheeps will always follow whoever will guide them.
gamer66618
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gamer66618
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Nomad

Reading what I just wrote above, you will notice I partly agree with that. Why partly? There are people capable of thinking for themselves, not all are sheeps. If all people were like that, religion would only be a good thing in matter of orientation if it was true (if there was a non-human entity to guide them). This is improbable, the guidelines have been set up by humans for humans. Since it doesn't need a deity for that, it also doesn't need a religion for that. Sheeps will always follow whoever will guide them.
I sort of agree with you there. But humans will always follow other humans. This used to be priests and sometimes it still is. But whether people follow the government or celebrities or the media, we are all orientated by rules and laws. Without laws there'd be mass anarchy. Therefore rules are of utmost importance to keep civilisation and order to humankind. That's why they invented religion in the first place was to control the masses before law was invented, therefore religion is a good thing, but atheism has good points as well. Atheism is what allowed theoretical physicists to ponder the creation of the universe and come up with the Big Bang Theory and other theories on creationism. Therefore they both have their good points. And like I said they both have their bad points as well. Therefore they both have their advantages and disadvantages. It is up to the individual to decide whether to follow theism or atheism. But everybody is equal therefore it does not matter as it is down to preference...
Highfire
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Highfire
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Nomad

But humans will always follow other humans.

It is physically possible for one to be independant -- an example is me. This is a "It is what it is" style of phrase that you used that is very annoying honestly being as it just puts a style of life (that is common) into context of being true when it barely is.

But whether people follow the government or celebrities or the media, we are all orientated by rules and laws.

Which if we didn't have them would be known as consequences -- your free will is governed by the situations you are in.

Without laws there'd be mass anarchy.

Say that to primitive tribes -- they're not stupid, the main source is survival. If there is enough food for all they would instead work together -- unless of course there is a specific feud between two clans / factions / whatever you want to call it.

Of course with a much more intricate society others are more obsessed with power or cannot see the fluidity in everyone living -- and make a clutch for power, but that would be rare at best.

Therefore rules are of utmost importance to keep civilisation and order to humankind.

As with the previous reasons -- not really.

That's why they invented religion in the first place was to control the masses before law was invented,

Pretty sure there was some form of law back then -- just not necessarily as strong and furthermore Religion was more of a guideline by implicating what is probably false threats to maintain "order".

therefore religion is a good thing, but atheism has good points as well.

Atheism is the LACK of something, nothing more -- it's the neutrality. If you think religion is bad, then to you it's the lack of a negative thing, if religion is good to you, then from your perspective it's the lack of a good thing -- simple measurements really.

Therefore the good points in Atheism is actually... non-existant. The things that genuinely follow being as Religion was the primarily meaning of life and dogma children were taught is logical and critical thinking -- but those both stand alone from eachother and from Atheism.

Atheism is what allowed theoretical physicists to ponder the creation of the universe and come up with the Big Bang Theory and other theories on creationism.

Is that not much of a benefit when you consider that freedom was taken away due to Religion?

By the way -- the Big Bang is not a creationist theory.

Therefore they both have their good points.

You're considering that Atheism actually holds something -- not all Atheists (which would be too bothersome to try going into) have a belief that goes AGAINST the reality of deities and the like.

And like I said they both have their bad points as well.

I'd appreciate you telling me a bad point of Atheism -- given what I said, it's pretty much neutral.

Religion has had bad points that I believe I may have already mentioned -- Christianity FTW, and earlier on this thread I would imagine.

But everybody is equal therefore it does not matter as it is down to preference...

Not everybody is equal -- their actions define their worth, only once they're mature enough to make their own choices should they be properly judged like this though -- born equal, but genuinely not later in life. Would I consider Einstein equal to Hitler? No -- Hitler was very philosophically entrenched but was horrendously wrong in his massacre of Jews, Einstein had a brilliant mind and plausible beliefs -- there are certainly flaws or shortcomings Einstein has but the negative traits Hitler possessed certainly sets him back in terms of his equality to Einstein.

I'd be in favor of that too, but it would probably lead to a huge mess due to a lot of confused and unoriented people.

Indeed -- there are a lot of things you would probably want to change in the current world but doing it straight away would be too drastic for most people... sadly, even the most logical things need to "settle in" for most people from what I've seen.

Finding a proper way to transition it would be excellent -- although difficult and unlikely given current political state of affairs.

we just have faith in other things rather than a floating dead guy.

Faith is often construed as trust without reason, and etc.
It can also refer to beliefs that are not based on proof
- Wikipedia

Being faithless means nothing -- literally.

- H
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

I'd appreciate you telling me a bad point of Atheism --


A bad point of Atheism is not many people understand what it is and often use it as some sort of base to attack religion from.

Although...that's not really a bad point of atheism, just a misunderstanding on a large majority of the population.

Not everybody is equal --


Very true. Not everyone is equal. Everyone does deserve to be treated equally however.

In summary...Atheist/Theist are words. They describe whether that particular person believes in a god or not. That's it. Nothing else is attached. Arguing that Atheists are better than Theists and then using religion as an example as to why theists are wrong is no more true than saying all atheists have no religion.
Nurvana
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Nurvana
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Farmer

This is improbable, the guidelines have been set up by humans for humans. Since it doesn't need a deity for that, it also doesn't need a religion for that. Sheeps will always follow whoever will guide them.


True, and ironic, seeing as most religions were probably created, or at least morphed into, an institution to control the weak-minded.
Highfire
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Highfire
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Nomad

A bad point of Atheism is not many people understand what it is and often use it as some sort of base to attack religion from.

A bad point of Scientology is that people generally link it to Science due to the name.

-- Both your point and mine really are irrelevant, they're cause of people simply not knowing what they're talking about, not a trait of the actual thing itself (which is why arguing against these kind of arguments are annoying at best).

Although...that's not really a bad point of atheism, just a misunderstanding on a large majority of the population.

...
So yeah -- we're both on the same page

Everyone does deserve to be treated equally however.

At first yes -- but from previous experiences with said people of course there's reason to... hrmm -- take notice, at least.

That, and a little thing from Men and Women equality -- from me (this is a paste of what I thought a few months back and so may not be all that accurate -- if you disagree please mention ):
Are men and women equal?
Nope.
From general observation I have a general attitude towards people. I don't talk to all men the same, and I don't talk to all women the same, although like men I do have pre-set values and guidelines that I naturally follow to help socially get along with a girl.

If she wants to be taken as something else, much like a man I would give them the oppurtunity to do so, be it a job or just a way to look at them (since obviously you don't have the same opinions of your Swedish gamer University graduate than a teenage Scottish MMA fighter), they will be given that oppurtunity.
The difference is the precautionary actions, I wouldn't be so careful as to watch my tongue with a male than I would be with most females, would I?
Of course it doesn't mean I'm abusive, or insulting - or anything negative, but I might be less confrontational in my oration against a man, and that's actually a bad thing for them - because my oration should be to the point, and rational. If it's someone who I would think has a higher chance of reacting poorly I would have to weigh out the scales a little to suit them, it creates a slower discussion that quite frankly gets nowhere when you find that most men can't be mature. Of course, if they're friends, I'm likely to be more blunt in a joking sense - sadly though I don't think they realize just how serious I could be in those scenarios but nonetheless the conversation goes smoothly.

Or is that just me? I find that women are generally much more kind / caring and have legitimate reasons for it, it's simple altruism. And I find they're more reasonable in contact with me. I mean, it doesn't matter much that any conflict between me and a male friend would result in us two laughing it off with banter that may or may not include fowl language, but I could actually hash it out like an adult (despite not being one) with a female. Bare in mind that this also of course has exceptions, but in general I would find that to be the case with someone I would regard as a friend.


It's nice to have some things lying around in WordPad ^^

Also, about the last thing you said -- using a religion against Theists is kind of accurate when you consider that not following it would thus make you an unbeliever -- which is something I consistently use as a fair argument.

The Crusades was down under the name of Christiantiy to fuel manpower for what was really political motivations -- they spoke on behalf of God to their people and God made an effort to NOT say anything (being as he's all-powerful, and supposedly a just being, it would be effortless), meaning that... logically, he condones the actions of the warmongers.

The people who follow that God -- the entirety of Christians, basically believe that that was the right decision as a result, otherwise they really.... aren't Christians.
Of course not all of them are aware of this and aren't likely going to agree with it however it's that misconception (like Atheism) that people have about Religions.

- H
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

The Crusades was down under the name of Christiantiy to fuel manpower for what was really political motivations -- they spoke on behalf of God to their people and God made an effort to NOT say anything (being as he's all-powerful, and supposedly a just being, it would be effortless), meaning that... logically, he condones the actions of the warmongers.


This is a fair argument. However, this would not be.

"Theism is bad because of the crusades."

Not all theists are christian, so such a statement is invalid. You can't group theists together anymore than you can atheists unless you specifically talk about whether they believe in a god or not.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

herefore atheism isn't all bad and all belief systems have their flaws.


It's a lack of belief, not really a belief system in and of it self.

For example atheism has the downside that there is no incentive to do good because you don't go to heaven in the afterlife.


This is like saying someone who doesn't play a sport has no motivation to exercise because they don't score points.

In fact there is no afterlife.


A belief in an afterlife does not necessarily have to be linked to a belief in a god.

People do already have their own morals and they won't follow something they don't believe in. However, people DO get their morals from religion first quite often, or from their parents who got theirs from that religion.


I think it's more likely they apply their own morals to the religion then give that religion the credit for being a moral guide.

Though we do have times where someone will say X is wrong only because their religion says so, even though personally they don't feel that it is actually wrong. I think this is where religion can play a role in affecting morals.

Atheism is sometimes frowned upon by 'the faithful' because we're the only people not to have faith in a religion. They say we're faithless, well I say we're not faithless, we just have faith in other things rather than a floating dead guy.


I try to be faithless....

Atheism is what allowed theoretical physicists to ponder the creation of the universe and come up with the Big Bang Theory and other theories on creationism.


A theist came up with the Big Bang theory.

Therefore they both have their good points.


The only thing atheism holds is a lack of belief in a god/s, anything beyond that is besides the point subject to the individual.

"Theism is bad because of the crusades."


How about theism is bad because of the requirement of faith? With faith we are just accepting a claim with nothing actually supporting that claim. This can have negative affects on the way people think.
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