ForumsWEPRAffirmative Action

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nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

Affirmative action refers to policies that take factors including ''race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination.''

In this diverse world, at one point or another, you would surely come into contact with this, be it for college admissions, job applications or what not.

My question to you guys is therefore, do you support affirmative action? Or do you believe it is a gross attack on meritocracy, to prefer one person over another based solely on his race, religion, or physical characteristics? I'm an opponent of affirmative action, no one group should be given preferable treatment over another; any historical imbalance due to discrimination can be solved in the end through a fair and equal education. Why should say, white people today be punished over what their ancestors perpetuated, and be forced to give up a job they are better qualified for to a coloured person, on the basis that there's a quota to be filled?

  • 33 Replies
rafterman
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rafterman
600 posts
Nomad

The people who get "replaced" by minorities probably wouldn't have been accepted by the college anyway.


Then affirmative action isn't necessary.
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

If it is so easy then why don't they do it? How, exactly, does one accomplish this? And again, what do we do with all the students who are products of this system in the meantime?


It's easier in the sense that its the easiest way to fix the problem. Because affirmative action doesn't fix the problem.

And again, what do we do with all the students who are products of this system in the meantime?


What do you mean?

How, exactly, does one accomplish this?


Reduce crime, gang activity, get kids to understand the value of education, make sure parents are also aware and can help the kids ect... This all needs to be done from early on, and continued. Not just in black communities, but in poor communities, or in violent communities in general. There are also certain crimes that would be hard to fight and we shouldn't fight them, but thats another topic.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Different life experiences. Colleges don't want a bunch of rich white kids who all went to private high schools and all belong to country clubs. They want a wide spectrum. College isn't just about academics.



And instead opt to get a bunch of rich black kids who all belong to country clubs? As it turns out, it is difficult for anyone to get into Ivy league schools, more so poor people. So how does having rich minorities help? And if they are poor minorities, doesn't that make them less likely to give money to the school?

Well, it won't ever be 50-50. Right now its more like 60-40, in favor of women. They don't want things to get any more skewed. One possible explanation is that institutions that get labeled as "girl" schools or "guy" schools (or really labeled after any demographic) tend to not do as well.


So they are paranoid that even having certain members would get them labeled and make them less money? I am starting to think the insanity answer fits better.

Because all good schools already have done these things. Diversity is just another thing to add on top. Also, you keep ignoring that fact that many people expect colleges to be diverse, and will choose more diverse schools over those percieved as monochrome. This goes for professors as well. Its going to be pretty hard to snag that brilliant black mathematician if he thinks your school is full of pompous white people.


And why is that? It sounds really stupid. "Well this school has a great academic plan, amazing facilitates, friendly people, and good teachers, but there are to many white people here!" isn't exactly heard a lot.

Except ivy league schools have insanely high graduation rates, are currently the main schools using affirmative actions.


So? Lowering the bar and making it easy for minority students to get in still makes them get into situations they are not prepared for, thus making them more likely to preform poorly and drop out, as my statistics said.

And when it comes to international students, things are different. First of all, colleges really really want international students, because they are essential to many departments. Also, it gives the college international recognition, which is a good thing. There is more to the application process than just "getting in". Most people apply to many colleges and get into quite a few. So, they have a choice.


I thought you said that it was mostly Ivy League schools with insanely high entrance requirements doing this, if they are insanely high how many people are going to be welcome into multiple schools?

"Look at all the valedictorians I have!"


"Look at how good we can teach these kids!"

"look how far this guy can throw a ball!"


"Now ladies and gentlemen, please clap your hands and welcome the world-famous Princeton/Harvard/Brown/Other Ivy league school FOOTBALL TEAM!" Oh wait. What ivy league school has a team that is taken seriously?

And then, they say:
"Look how much more money we made! Now we can afford to accept more applicants and give out more scholarships."


"To more minorities who did nothing to earn it!" great.

Again, as I said before, it isn't just diversity for diversity's sake. Everyone benefits.


Just who benefits?

Not the minorities, they, once again, tend to preform poorly and drop out more do to the fact that they where let in unqualified, and those who would get in normally are not benefited, as they would get in normally. They also have their achievements undermined "Wow, great! You pushed past all that racism and made it to the top of the later! Now let us undermine your achievements by not letting you in for your academic score, but the color of your own skin!"

Not the majority, who get knocked out by less or equally as valid minority people, (The greater ones would have knocked them out anyway and don't need AA).

The schools? You claim they get money from this somehow (Which you have not backed up by any proof...) but I would assume that having more students failing and dropping out would be a worry to them.

I don't see anyone winning from this...
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