Forums → WEPR → Heaven and Hell?

It dicuses many of the questions you have been asking I think. Also God is not a monster.

i said he is and explained why. id expect you do the 2nd part of what i did while showing me why my reasons for thinking that way are wrong?

but it isn't.
I suggest you watch this video about The Origin of the Genetic Code.

Oh wow that really opened my eyes on new things. I had to watch that video 3 times over to understand. Very complex.

@thebluerabbit

people shouldnt be afraid of being bad. they should be like being good.

I think you are taking this the worng way. God is not trying to frighten us to not do bad things and to do good things so then we go to Heaven. Before Jesus was born and showed people God. Mankind did not have very much laws and were sort of free to do what they want like steal, kill and do crimes. So then God choosed to bring a baby of the Son of God from the woom of Mary. So then man would be able to realize the God is real and that you should do good in your life like Jesus did instead of bad. God is not forcing you to do good things. You can do bad things still. God is only trying to guide us in the right path.

aliens have more things to back them up then any religion

Well that is a load of crap I am sorry but aliens definatly do not have more to back up on than any other religion. My religion deals with real people and a God. Aliens is people claiming to have been taken by aliens or seeing aliens. Also all that crop circle stuff is so fake people can easily make crop circles and many do.

human sacrifice is a horibble thing in my opinion and if a god cant do something simple as forgiving someone without killing a person then maybe he isnt all that mighty?

First of all Jesus didn't just sacrifice himself he was crucifeid by Pontuis Piolat not because Jesus said sacrifice me. The romans didn't even know anything about God until Jesus came and died. So they couldn't have perpusly sacrificed him to earn forgiveness from God. Did you know that Jesus was a Jew, and many Jews made this religion because of him. Have you heard of Moses. Well God helped Moses free the Jews from the Egyptians that were making them there slaves. And when Moses parted the Red Sea that was because God was with him in the Staff Moses had. So God is had to make his name known by sending Jesus down to Earth to proclaim the wrod of God to the Jews and other people. So then they would know of God and Jesus so then they would know what sins and forgiveness is.

it means we are born sinners which means god created us as sinners which also means he created us to be doomed to go to hell.

No, when God created us and we are born and baptized we are pur in heart and have no sins. But we will sin because that is what humans do make mistakes and learn from them. We are not doomed to Hell because we can ask for forgiveness God and Jesus by going to a priest and through the preist we are granted forgiveness from God and Jesus. So we are not all doomed to hell because we can be forgived for our sins.


@Hahiha

Thus, if it rots, what part exactly will go to heaven if there is one? Some kind of energy?

The part that will go to heaven is our sprirt and soul. We will go to Heaven to be judged and see if we are truly sorry for our sins to be forgiven.

@Freakenstein

This begs the question: God knows beforehand, since he is omniscient, who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. In religious faith, the creation of humans is overall overseen by God himself. Are humans doomed to follow the fate that God has placed upon him/herself?

No, humans are not doomed to follow the fate that God has placed upon evryone. The quote says that God has written the Law in their Hearts. Meaning that God has put the faith of the holy spirit and the law of how to live as a follower of God in everyone's heart. So God is a "all-loving God he is our sheperd leading us the way of goodness. So we are not doomed to follow the fate God has put upon us. We will all have a chance to go to heaven.

However, which is it? Are humans free to choose whether they can go to Heaven or Hell, or is this fate predetermined (the first passage) overseen by God?

Humans are free to choose whether they can go to Heaven or Hell. Some might choose to go to Hell because they had a different religion in the first place and cannot except God or they don't want to give up there sin, slefishness and pride for God. But they can choose to give up their sins, selfishness and pride to go into Heaven.

I think you are taking this the worng way. God is not trying to frighten us to not do bad things and to do good things so then we go to Heaven. Before Jesus was born and showed people God. Mankind did not have very much laws and were sort of free to do what they want like steal, kill and do crimes. So then God choosed to bring a baby of the Son of God from the woom of Mary. So then man would be able to realize the God is real and that you should do good in your life like Jesus did instead of bad. God is not forcing you to do good things. You can do bad things still. God is only trying to guide us in the right path.

everything is ok if that was just it. but then comes the non-christian and many other things that have nothing to do with bad things that god still wants from us. no explanation, only the hell threat.

Well that is a load of crap I am sorry but aliens definatly do not have more to back up on than any other religion. My religion deals with real people and a God. Aliens is people claiming to have been taken by aliens or seeing aliens. Also all that crop circle stuff is so fake people can easily make crop circles and many do.

REAL people and god? the people who claim to be abducted exist NOW and are obviously here unlike those who claim god exists. you cant know if aliens are real or not and you cant disprove them either.

First of all Jesus didn't just sacrifice himself he was crucifeid by Pontuis Piolat not because Jesus said sacrifice me. The romans didn't even know anything about God until Jesus came and died. So they couldn't have perpusly sacrificed him to earn forgiveness from God. Did you know that Jesus was a Jew, and many Jews made this religion because of him. Have you heard of Moses. Well God helped Moses free the Jews from the Egyptians that were making them there slaves. And when Moses parted the Red Sea that was because God was with him in the Staff Moses had. So God is had to make his name known by sending Jesus down to Earth to proclaim the wrod of God to the Jews and other people. So then they would know of God and Jesus so then they would know what sins and forgiveness is.

then why did jesus have to die for our sins if thats not the reason he was sent? he was there and then people just decided he died for that reason? god sending someone to show he is real is understandable. but sacrificing him for others peoples sin and gods "ability" to forgive sounds made up.

No, when God created us and we are born and baptized we are pur in heart and have no sins. But we will sin because that is what humans do make mistakes and learn from them. We are not doomed to Hell because we can ask for forgiveness God and Jesus by going to a priest and through the preist we are granted forgiveness from God and Jesus. So we are not all doomed to hell because we can be forgived for our sins.

there is a difference between asking for forgiveness and saying what they want to hear. a person who regrets any bad deed he has done but isnt christian will be doomed to hell because of that. and as i said, christianity has many "sins" that arent explained like homosexuality. people are born that way and it is considered a sin. they have to regret the way they were born? its a sin in christianity, a sin that you are born with and thats a fact. if god creates people like that he creates sinners who are doomed to go to hell unless they "ask for forgiveness" by being lonely for the rest of their life or living in a lie.

and again, those who are born to other religions that say the exact same thing like christianty cant be blamed. yet they will burn in hell because they arent christians. christianity expects such people to regret the way they were born and to wish to be different people.

No, humans are not doomed to follow the fate that God has placed upon evryone. The quote says that God has written the Law in their Hearts. Meaning that God has put the faith of the holy spirit and the law of how to live as a follower of God in everyone's heart. So God is a "all-loving God he is our sheperd leading us the way of goodness. So we are not doomed to follow the fate God has put upon us. We will all have a chance to go to heaven.

accept those people i just mentioned. and if for example the islam sais the same, how can you know which one is right?

Humans are free to choose whether they can go to Heaven or Hell. Some might choose to go to Hell because they had a different religion in the first place and cannot except God or they don't want to give up there sin, slefishness and pride for God. But they can choose to give up their sins, selfishness and pride to go into Heaven.

just like i said earlier. this is as much as aiming someone with a gun and telling him to do something. technically he has a choice. how lovely

No, when God created us and we are born and baptized we are pur in heart and have no sins.

Our Bible (mine and yours) says: "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Where are you getting that being sprinkled with water is going to wash away our sins? It is indeed a sad fact that from birth, a person is doomed to Hell. One can, however, change that fate, as I explained earlier.

My religion deals with real people and a God.

Well supposedly real people.

So then they would know of God and Jesus so then they would know what sins and forgiveness is.

So your saying no one knew what doing wrong and being forgiven for it was? However did we form societies and how ever did those people in other parts of the word get along before the message spread? Though of course sin doesn't necessarily mean wrong, it's just what this God is saying is wrong.

If this really was such an important message to bring people God used a very piss poor method of doing it. It would have been much more effective to announce it to the word (ala Vogon style) or start it off in a more literate less isolated part of the world.

Meaning that God has put the faith of the holy spirit and the law of how to live as a follower of God in everyone's heart.

That couldn't possibly be true. There are those with no moral conscience what so even.

There are those with no moral conscience what so even.

Are you saying that they have no idea that lying, stealing and murder are wrong, or am I misunderstanding you?

Our Bible (mine and yours) says: "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Where are you getting that being sprinkled with water is going to wash away our sins? It is indeed a sad fact that from birth, a person is doomed to Hell. One can, however, change that fate, as I explained earlier.

Ya I think I am getting confused in my own thought I have to clear everything out and bring clear ideas just give me a minute.

Are you saying that they have no idea that lying, stealing and murder are wrong, or am I misunderstanding you?

That's exactly what I'm saying. We refer to these people as having psychological disorders. The parts of there brain that allow of empathy to to judge what's right and wrong don't work right. As a result they have no sense of these things.

@thebluerabbit

but then comes the non-christian and many other things that have nothing to do with bad things that god still wants from us. no explanation, only the hell threat.

The Bible actually says little about hell. I find only a handful of references in each of the two testaments; nothing approaching the vivid depictions of hell in the Middle Ages by the Church and its artists. Hell was thought of as a place where one didn't want to remain after death, and God was seen as able to rescue someone from there. But the concept of hell isn't highly developed and doesn't play a large role in the teachings of Jesus or of Paul.

The Bible's words about heaven are more numerous, but, interestingly, they don't lead to images of golden streets, clouds, angels, or happy arrivals getting rewarded after death. As far as the Old Testament is concerned, heaven is where God lives. From heaven God âcomes downâ to interact with creation. Heaven was âup there,â in the vastness of sky and space. In other words, heaven was about God, not about humanity.

The Church made much more of both heaven and hell, largely as a way of compelling obedience. Scripture does speak of eternal life, or a life with God that doesn't end. It isn't portrayed as spatial or as a reward for anything we do, but rather as a continuation of God's love for all that God has made.

As Paul said, nothing can separate us from that loveâ"not even our behavior, choices, or death. The assurance for you, as for all of us, is that we cannot cause God's love to cease, not even by denying God

You can read up more Here

people are born that way and it is considered a sin. they have to regret the way they were born? its a sin in christianity, a sin that you are born with and thats a fact. if god creates people like that he creates sinners who are doomed to go to hell unless they "ask for forgiveness" by being lonely for the rest of their life or living in a lie.

go to what phycticpotato said about

It is indeed a sad fact that from birth, a person is doomed to Hell. One can, however, change that fate, as I explained earlier.

@MageGrayWolf

If this really was such an important message to bring people God used a very piss poor method of doing it. It would have been much more effective to announce it to the word (ala Vogon style) or start it off in a more literate less isolated part of the world.

Yes, I do agree why God does not do this. But the preists and religion teachers tell us that God does not want everyone to go in his way of life and to beleive in God and Jesus just because they can see it with there own eyes of him being real. God wants us to intimately beleive in him and what Jesus has taught us.

Here is when Jesus gets resurrected from his tomb:

It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
The centurion, seeing what had happened, praised God and said, "Surely this was a righteous man." When all the people who had gathered to witness this sight saw what took place, they beat their breasts and went away. But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.
Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man, who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea and he was waiting for the kingdom of God. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body. Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee:`The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' " Then they remembered his words.
When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.


Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; but they were kept from recognizing him.
He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?"
They stood still, their faces downcast. One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"
"What things?" he asked.
"About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."
He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.
When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"
They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon." Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."
When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.


In this story one of Jesus' desciples did not beleive Jesus was resurrected from his tomb because he has not seen Jesus with his own eyes and thinks that the disciples are lying. This is like how people can't beleive in the Christain religion because they don't see any evidence with there own eyes and can't beleive in somehting.

That's exactly what I'm saying. We refer to these people as having psychological disorders. The parts of there brain that allow of empathy to to judge what's right and wrong don't work right. As a result they have no sense of these things.

In a theist's view: these people could not be at fault for what they do. They must have a mental diorder. So, the above comments have no impact on their life? Religion does not apply to them? (BTW: I am not arguing against you, just furthering your point in a theistic light. Also, asking Flames the questions.)

Also, asking Flames the questions

Ya well, I could use some help with answering and putting insight into quetions. Like that one. lolol.

The Bible actually says little about hell. I find only a handful of references in each of the two testaments; nothing approaching the vivid depictions of hell in the Middle Ages by the Church and its artists. Hell was thought of as a place where one didn't want to remain after death, and God was seen as able to rescue someone from there. But the concept of hell isn't highly developed and doesn't play a large role in the teachings of Jesus or of Paul.

it doesnt matter. its still the religion that uses hell as a threat. its obvious no one wants to go there and they say who will go there. its that simple.

go to what phycticpotato said about

so you just admitted that god creates us as sinners (even though at first you said we are born pure.) why would a loving caring god create us to be doomed to hell?

In this story one of Jesus' desciples did not beleive Jesus was resurrected from his tomb because he has not seen Jesus with his own eyes and thinks that the disciples are lying. This is like how people can't beleive in the Christain religion because they don't see any evidence with there own eyes and can't beleive in somehting.

which makes sense? you cant believe in anything people tell you because many things are opposites for example certain religions. you cant blame people for not believeing in something that has the same amount of proofs as something else. but yet again, we are born that way and god dooms us to hell from the day we are born.