[necro] Is homosexuality right or wrong?

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reaperbackinaction

91 posts

Nomad

Posted April 2, '12 6:30am UTC

I'm not gay, but I personally can't stand people who fling their bigoted views onto others and make it out to be a sin. It's fine to have such views, but keep them and the half baked lies and myths to yourself instead of trying to force gays to be straight.

seems to be a two way street. odd that this seems to be the norm with gays and all related debate. they want to be different, act different, even have pride parades and throw out there how proud they are to be different. but when it comes to being treated differently, " hey man, we just want to be treated like everyone else". my advice? act like everyone else. i guarantee that if you didn't tell everyone that you were gay, no one would even know, or care for that matter.

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Kasic

5,552 posts

Jester

Posted April 2, '12 8:44am UTC

wow, missed the mark entirely on that one.

How so? You claimed that a marriage is only between a man and a woman. This view is popularized by religion, as you get married in a CHURCH.

who said anything about religion and marriage? i didnt.

I'm sorry if you're unaware of where the arguments you're using come from.

and again, WHAT? i said nothing about marriage having to do with having kids.

Uh...

"not to say that they couldn't get legally bonded to each other, but it cant be marriage. they can just have something else. thats like trying to say that girls can have babies, so i get to have babies. we are different, gay couple's are different from not gay couples, so how could they do the same thing?"

except for the fact that they can't even have kids without a member of the opposite sex.

That's not a weakness. There are plenty of infertile heterosexual couples who cannot have kids. Homosexuals can one up them there, as they are still ABLE to have kids (unless they're infertile too anyways.)

myself and my wife would be sickened if a homosexual was to teach our kids in our stead

May I ask why?

And what if the alternative was growing up in an horrible state run child care which dumps you on person after person via the foster care system? Would you really prefer your kid have that kind of childhood than be raised by parents who, for all intents and purposes, provide shelter, food, a stable environment, and a support, as well as funding for school?

and it was because of us that a homosexual was fired from a teaching position at an elementary school here, not for being gay, but for teaching that it is normal. absolutely rediculous.

I would like to flat out call you a homophobic bigot/intolerant *******, as this is akin to getting fired for teaching that black people are equal to white people, but, I do not know the situation behind it, so I'll ask.

What brought this to your attention, why did the teacher bring it up (were the kids making fun of homosexuals, was it apart of the lesson topic, etc.) and what actions did you then take, and what actions did the school take?

there can't be equality if we aren't equal, hince, we all get treated differently.

While this is technically true, by equality people mean, "not getting preferential or detrimental treatment based directly on one's race, gender, beliefs, sexual orientation, or outward expression."

Of course people get treated differently. I would be much more likely to lend/give money to someone I've known for a long time and consider a friend than some random stranger who walks up to me.

they want to be different, act different, even have pride parades and throw out there how proud they are to be different.

...Seriously? They want to be different? They want to be themselves. What if you were accosted for being whatever race you are constantly? Or for what you believed? Or for being a heterosexual?

The reason they have gay pride parades is the exact same reason there were protests against discrimination. It's a way to say, "We're here too, and we stand together in support of each other. We aren't lesser or inferior because of who we are." because they are denied basic rights that they quite simply should have.

but when it comes to being treated differently, " hey man, we just want to be treated like everyone else". my advice? act like everyone else.

So everyone should just fall into the mainstream hmm? If a kid is bullied because he likes something that most of his other classmates don't, he should just not like what he likes anymore? That's bull.

i guarantee that if you didn't tell everyone that you were gay, no one would even know, or care for that matter

This is the whole issue to the matter. There's nothing wrong with being a homosexual and therefore they shouldn't have to hide it anymore so than you have to hide that you're a heterosexual.

[quote]wow, missed the mark entirely on that one.[/quote]\r\n\r\nHow so? You claimed that a marriage is only between a man and a woman. This view is popularized by religion, as you get married in a CHURCH.\r\n\r\n[quote]who said anything about religion and marriage? i didnt.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm sorry if you're unaware of where the arguments you're using come from. \r\n\r\n[quote]and again, WHAT? i said nothing about marriage having to do with having kids.[/quote]\r\n\r\nUh...\r\n\r\n"not to say that they couldn't get legally bonded to each other, but it cant be marriage. they can just have something else. [b]thats like trying to say that girls can have babies[/b], so [b]i get to have babies. we are different[/b], [b]gay couple's are different from not gay couples,[/b] so how could they do the same thing?"\r\n\r\n[quote]except for the fact that they can't even have kids without a member of the opposite sex.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThat's not a weakness. There are plenty of infertile heterosexual couples who cannot have kids. Homosexuals can one up them there, as they are still ABLE to have kids (unless they're infertile too anyways.)\r\n\r\n[quote] myself and my wife would be sickened if a homosexual was to teach our kids in our stead[/quote]\r\n\r\nMay I ask why?\r\n\r\nAnd what if the alternative was growing up in an horrible state run child care which dumps you on person after person via the foster care system? Would you really prefer your kid have that kind of childhood than be raised by parents who, for all intents and purposes, provide shelter, food, a stable environment, and a support, as well as funding for school? \r\n\r\n [quote]and it was because of us that a homosexual was fired from a teaching position at an elementary school here, not for being gay, but for teaching that it is normal. absolutely rediculous.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI would like to flat out call you a homophobic bigot/intolerant *******, as this is akin to getting fired for teaching that black people are equal to white people, but, I do not know the situation behind it, so I'll ask.\r\n\r\nWhat brought this to your attention, why did the teacher bring it up (were the kids making fun of homosexuals, was it apart of the lesson topic, etc.) and what actions did you then take, and what actions did the school take?\r\n\r\n[quote]there can't be equality if we aren't equal, hince, we all get treated differently.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWhile this is technically true, by equality people mean, "not getting preferential or detrimental treatment based directly on one's race,  gender, beliefs, sexual orientation, or outward expression."\r\n\r\nOf course people get treated differently. I would be much more likely to lend/give money to someone I've known for a long time and consider a friend than some random stranger who walks up to me. \r\n\r\n[quote] they want to be different, act different, even have pride parades and throw out there how proud they are to be different.[/quote]\r\n\r\n...Seriously? They want to be different? They want to be themselves. What if you were accosted for being whatever race you are constantly? Or for what you believed? Or for being a heterosexual? \r\n\r\nThe reason they have gay pride parades is the exact same reason there were protests against discrimination. It's a way to say, "We're here too, and we stand together in support of each other. We aren't lesser or inferior because of who we are." because they are denied basic rights that they quite simply should have. \r\n\r\n[quote]but when it comes to being treated differently, " hey man, we just want to be treated like everyone else". my advice? act like everyone else.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo everyone should just fall into the mainstream hmm? If a kid is bullied because he likes something that most of his other classmates don't, he should just not like what he likes anymore? That's bull. \r\n\r\n[quote] i guarantee that if you didn't tell everyone that you were gay, no one would even know, or care for that matter[/quote]\r\n\r\nThis is the whole issue to the matter.[i] There's nothing wrong with being a homosexual and therefore they shouldn't have to hide it anymore so than you have to hide that you're a heterosexual.[/i]

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master565

4,104 posts

Nomad

Posted April 2, '12 10:35am UTC

one hundred years ago, over population wasn't a huge issue. no one prepared, no one (with exception to china) did anything about it, and here we are, paying for it. where will we be in another 100 years? you are thinking about your tomorrow friend, im thinking about my children's tomorrow.

Funny, I just wrote a paper on this. Thomas Malthus

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thebluerabbit

5,340 posts

Farmer

Posted April 2, '12 1:41pm UTC

no, it is a different story, and no im not discriminating against them, im saying that marriage is between a man and a woman, not to say that they couldn't get legally bonded to each other, but it cant be marriage. they can just have something else. thats like trying to say that girls can have babies, so i get to have babies. we are different, gay couple's are different from not gay couples, so how could they do the same thing?

then why not call every religiouns marriage in a different name?

now again to my question: what is your point? is there any proof that being gay is unnatural? did you record what the teacher said and know for yourself he said normal and not unnatural? and do you actually realise you made someone lose his job simply because you just dont agree with him? weather you do compare us to animals or not there is no basis behind being against those people having the same rights as other people. and animals do care for their other people. when one of them is in danger they will risk their life to save it even if its obvious it will eventually died. i remember being attacked by crows for getting to close to a severely hurt crow (and he died after a few hours).

again... whats your point?

seems to be a two way street. odd that this seems to be the norm with gays and all related debate. they want to be different, act different, even have pride parades and throw out there how proud they are to be different. but when it comes to being treated differently, " hey man, we just want to be treated like everyone else". my advice? act like everyone else. i guarantee that if you didn't tell everyone that you were gay, no one would even know, or care for that matter.

who said they want to be different? im sure that if youd ask "if you would be born again, would you want to be gay or streight" most of them would definitely say streight. how do they act differently? for being who they are? if there is a person who most people think is ugly, is it so bad if a person will find him attractive? and the reason they have pride parades IS because they are treated so different. when you are part of a community that is looked down upon by so many people you want to feel that you are not alone. you seem more and more like a person who thinks that they think they are special or cool by being different and it even sounds as if your jealous? you really sound like one of those people who are afraid being called homophobic

[quote]no, it is a different story, and no im not discriminating against them, im saying that marriage is between a man and a woman, not to say that they couldn't get legally bonded to each other, but it cant be marriage. they can just have something else. thats like trying to say that girls can have babies, so i get to have babies. we are different, gay couple's are different from not gay couples, so how could they do the same thing?[/quote]\r\n\r\nthen why not call every religiouns marriage in a different name?\r\n\r\nnow again to my question: what is your point? is there any proof that being gay is unnatural? did you record what the teacher said and know for yourself he said normal and not unnatural? and do you actually realise you made someone lose his job simply because you just dont agree with him? weather you do compare us to animals or not there is no basis behind being against those people having the same rights as other people. and animals do care for their other people. when one of them is in danger they will risk their life to save it even if its obvious it will eventually died. i remember being attacked by crows for getting to close to a severely hurt crow (and he died after a few hours).\r\n\r\nagain... whats your point?\r\n\r\n\r\n[quote]seems to be a two way street. odd that this seems to be the norm with gays and all related debate. they want to be different, act different, even have pride parades and throw out there how proud they are to be different. but when it comes to being treated differently, " hey man, we just want to be treated like everyone else". my advice? act like everyone else. i guarantee that if you didn't tell everyone that you were gay, no one would even know, or care for that matter.[/quote]\r\n\r\nwho said they want to be different? im sure that if youd ask "if you would be born again, would you want to be gay or streight" most of them would definitely say streight. how do they act differently? for being who they are? if there is a person who most people think is ugly, is it so bad if a person will find him attractive? and the reason they have pride parades IS because they are treated so different. when you are part of a community that is looked down upon by so many people you want to feel that you are not alone. you seem more and more like a person who thinks that they think they are special or cool by being different and it even sounds as if your jealous? you really sound like one of those people who are afraid being called homophobic

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Avorne

3,085 posts

Nomad

Posted April 2, '12 1:56pm UTC

Gay Pride parades aren't about celebrating how different and alternative gay people are to heterosexuals - they're about making it clear that homosexuals aren't just going to sink back into the shadows and live their lives under some sort of Don't Ask, Don't Tell-esque policy (which is how you suggested they live). They're about seeking to gain equality and reaching out to anyone that doesn't feel like they can come out of the closet or is coping with homophobic abuse.

Also, for the whole marriage thing, do you propose that every different religion have a different name for their 'legal bonding'? And for that matter, who says that heterosexual Christians have the right to claim the word marriage for themselves? 'Legal bonding' as you termed it has been around for a fair while longer than the Bible and Christianity.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted April 2, '12 2:34pm UTC

who said anything about religion and marriage? i didnt.

and again, WHAT? i said nothing about marriage having to do with having kids.

Kasic covered this pretty well. This argument of not calling it marriage is directly linked to religion and you did compare not being able to have kids to gay marriage.

except for the fact that they can't even have kids without a member of the opposite sex.

Again artificial insemination and adoption would be viable options. Anyway, so what?! This doesn't mean a **** thing and it sure doesn't make it comparable to what you were trying to compare it to.

yes, if we were all coyotes, i'm sure that would apply, back to humans however.

What I stated an apply to humans as well.

myself and my wife would be sickened if a homosexual was to teach our kids in our stead.

Careful your bigotry is showing.

and it was because of us that a homosexual was fired from a teaching position at an elementary school here, not for being gay, but for teaching that it is normal. absolutely rediculous.

Yes that is absolutely ridiculous, that the person got fired. It is normal, If anything should sicken you it's the fact you had a hand in someone losing their job over something like this.

Anyway this doesn't address my statement in the least.

whos against equality?? there can't be equality if we aren't equal, hince, we all get treated differently.

You apparently. Saying that a person shouldn't have the same chance for happiness just because they are homosexual is bull. They do deserve that chance.
We shouldn't treat some one with in equality but give them the chance to succeed or fail on their own merits. However just being homosexual doesn't make a person less capable in this respect. The inequality is completely the doing of people like your self.

[quote]who said anything about religion and marriage? i didnt.[/quote]\r\n[quote]and again, WHAT? i said nothing about marriage having to do with having kids.[/quote]\r\n\r\nKasic covered this pretty well. This argument of not calling it marriage is directly linked to religion and you did compare not being able to have kids to gay marriage.\r\n\r\n[quote]except for the fact that they can't even have kids without a member of the opposite sex.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAgain artificial insemination and adoption would be viable options. Anyway, so what?! This doesn't mean a **** thing and it sure doesn't make it comparable to what you were trying to compare it to.\r\n\r\n[quote]yes, if we were all coyotes, i'm sure that would apply, back to humans however.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWhat I stated an apply to humans as well.\r\n\r\n[quote]myself and my wife would be sickened if a homosexual was to teach our kids in our stead.[/quote]\r\n\r\nCareful your bigotry is showing.\r\n\r\n[quote]and it was because of us that a homosexual was fired from a teaching position at an elementary school here, not for being gay, but for teaching that it is normal. absolutely rediculous.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes that is absolutely ridiculous, that the person got fired. It is normal, If anything should sicken you it's the fact you had a hand in someone losing their job over something like this.\r\n\r\nAnyway this doesn't address my statement in the least.\r\n\r\n[quote]whos against equality?? there can't be equality if we aren't equal, hince, we all get treated differently.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou apparently. Saying that a person shouldn't have the same chance for happiness just because they are homosexual is bull. They do deserve that chance. \r\nWe shouldn't treat some one with in equality but give them the chance to succeed or fail on their own merits. However just being homosexual doesn't make a person less capable in this respect. The inequality is completely the doing of people like your self.

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frodo86

474 posts

Shepherd

Posted April 2, '12 10:13pm UTC

taking care of every hurt or disabled person is a serious issue and it needs to be stopped.

Careful what you say, those are almost the exact words of Adolf Hitler. He thought that taking care of the disabled was a drain on the economy and that disabled people would dilute the &quoture" blood of the Aryans. Aparently you share some of the same views.

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reaperbackinaction

91 posts

Nomad

Posted April 2, '12 11:03pm UTC

Careful what you say, those are almost the exact words of Adolf Hitler. He thought that taking care of the disabled was a drain on the economy and that disabled people would dilute the &quoture" blood of the Aryans. Aparently you share some of the same views.

absolutely. the only thing i disagree with hitler on is the fact that he singled out races and religions.(besides the fact that religions are just a very good money making endeavor) i think that religions should be done away with all together. but that just isn't possible. i'm not racist, indeed it would be very difficult for me to be racist, as my grandpa is african american, and his wife was latino. and my moms parents were irish and german. i have no issue with race, orientations, or religious ideology. i keep trying to say that i don't really have a problem with gays either, there are ridiculous, over the top people of every race, sex, sexual orientation, and religion. the thing i disagree with is saying anything about sexual orientations being correct. any sexual orientation needs to be discussed by parents, not schools. i will agree that gays need to have the same basic rights as any other humans, but when it comes to marriage, it is a different thing. i wasn't trying to say anything about gays having kids, i was making a comparison between women having kids and men not, and hetero couples marrying and gays not. it seems to me that everyone being treated the exact same just isn't plausible. and it doesnt happen. women are given the benefit of the doubt far more than men in the court systems, and gay couples can sue straights for saying we are straight and proud. if everyone was treated exactly the same, everyone would feel like it wasn't fair, because everyone has different needs. i don't know how to explain this any more simply, we are all different, im not claiming to be superior, i was trying to give anti gays a new way of looking at gays. i find that most anti gays believe a common mis conception that it is a choice. but i still follow the scientific genetic studies that mark it as a gene. this makes sense. i am smart enough to know when i am being an A$$, and i definitely was being one. so i apologize, and i lied about getting a teacher fired, he didn't get fired, but he is no longer aloud to teach that being gay is normal. like i was saying, that is for kids to discuss with their parents or guardians when they are ready, not with 30 other kids and no parents present.

nevetsthereaper

[quote]Careful what you say, those are almost the exact words of Adolf Hitler. He thought that taking care of the disabled was a drain on the economy and that disabled people would dilute the "pure" blood of the Aryans. Aparently you share some of the same views.[/quote]\r\n\r\nabsolutely. the only thing i disagree with hitler on is the fact that he singled out races and religions.(besides the fact that religions are just a very good money making endeavor) i think that religions should be done away with all together. but that just isn't possible. i'm not racist, indeed it would be very difficult for me to be racist, as my grandpa is african american, and his wife was latino. and my moms parents were irish and german. i have no issue with race, orientations, or religious ideology. i keep trying to say that i don't really have a problem with gays either, there are ridiculous, over the top people of every race, sex, sexual orientation, and religion. the thing i disagree with is saying anything about sexual orientations being correct. any sexual orientation needs to be discussed by parents, not schools. i will agree that gays need to have the same basic rights as any other humans, but when it comes to marriage, it is a different thing. i wasn't trying to say anything about gays having kids, i was making a comparison between women having kids and men not, and hetero couples marrying and gays not. it seems to me that everyone being treated the exact same just isn't plausible. and it doesnt happen. women are given the benefit of the doubt far more than men in the court systems, and gay couples can sue straights for saying we are straight and proud. if everyone was treated exactly the same, everyone would feel like it wasn't fair, because everyone has different needs. i don't know how to explain this any more simply, we are all different, im not claiming to be superior, i was trying to give anti gays a new way of looking at gays. i find that most anti gays believe a common mis conception that it is a choice. but i still follow the scientific genetic studies that mark it as a gene. this makes sense. i am smart enough to know when i am being an A$$, and i definitely was being one. so i apologize, and i lied about getting a teacher fired, he didn't get fired, but he is no longer aloud to teach that being gay is normal. like i was saying, that is for kids to discuss with their parents or guardians when they are ready, not with 30 other kids and no parents present.\r\n\r\nnevetsthereaper

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dair5

3,371 posts

Shepherd

Posted April 2, '12 11:17pm UTC

any sexual orientation needs to be discussed by parents, not schools.

So should we just avoid health class then? These things are important and not every parent will discuss this with their child, which is one of the reasons schools do.

it seems to me that everyone being treated the exact same just isn't plausible. and it doesnt happen. women are given the benefit of the doubt far more than men in the court systems,

It is definitly possible. But if everyone were to give up it wouldn't happen would it? This isn't building a building a bridge across the ocean. It's just treating everyone with the basic respect they deserve. I don't think thats so hard.

and gay couples can sue straights for saying we are straight and proud.

What? Can you give a link? I have never seen this.

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Avorne

3,085 posts

Nomad

Posted April 2, '12 11:57pm UTC

HA! I thought I recognized the name, nevets my old chum, you're back in action. Didn't you get banned last time around for, y'know, bullying me and being a general jerk? I'm the Asexual guy that you kept making fun of, just in case you don't remember me, it has been quite a while after all.

Anyways... to cut a long story short:
-There are some things that parents can't be entirely trusted to accurately and completely explain to their children - it'd be like giving them free roam to teach that the sun revolves around the earth and that we're all descendants of the Great God Usran'ir (who's currently taking the form of President Obama). Sometimes teachers have to step in and fill the cracks in knowledge left by parents, or set right any misconceptions that students may have on a certain subject.
-I'm still not seeing how it's different when it comes to marriage, why should it matter whether it's two guys/two girls getting married or a guy and a girl? It shouldn't, marriage is a concept that has been around for a very long time and undergone massive changes during the time it has been around - the acceptance of homosexual marriages is merely modernizing the old institution to reflect how society is now.
-I've never seen a single court case where anyone was sued merely for saying that they were straight - if you'd like to point us in the direction of such a case then please go ahead.
-Homosexuality is normal, it's naturally-occurring, anyone that says otherwise is merely furthering homophobia - thus it's only right that teachers fix these misconceptions that the parents are giving their children.

HA! I thought I recognized the name, nevets my old chum, you're back in action. Didn't you get banned last time around for, y'know, bullying me and being a general jerk? I'm the Asexual guy that you kept making fun of, just in case you don't remember me, it has been quite a while after all.\r\n\r\nAnyways... to cut a long story short:\r\n-There are some things that parents can't be entirely trusted to accurately and completely explain to their children - it'd be like giving them free roam to teach that the sun revolves around the earth and that we're all descendants of the Great God Usran'ir (who's currently taking the form of President Obama). Sometimes teachers have to step in and fill the cracks in knowledge left by parents, or set right any misconceptions that students may have on a certain subject. \r\n-I'm still not seeing how it's different when it comes to marriage, why should it matter whether it's two guys/two girls getting married or a guy and a girl? It shouldn't, marriage is a concept that has been around for a very long time and undergone massive changes during the time it has been around - the acceptance of homosexual marriages is merely modernizing the old institution to reflect how society is now. \r\n-I've never seen a single court case where anyone was sued merely for saying that they were straight - if you'd like to point us in the direction of such a case then please go ahead. \r\n-Homosexuality is normal, it's naturally-occurring, anyone that says otherwise is merely furthering homophobia - thus it's only right that teachers fix these misconceptions that the parents are giving their children.

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reaperbackinaction

91 posts

Nomad

Posted April 3, '12 12:54am UTC

So should we just avoid health class then? These things are important and not every parent will discuss this with their child, which is one of the reasons schools do.

last time i checked, health class didn't have anything to do with being gay or straight, it teaches you how to properly take care of your body, i think you can have health class without talking about sexual orientation.

What? Can you give a link? I have never seen this.

it hasn't happened, well, not like that anyway, i said they can sue. this is creating a whole new set of double standards. see, everyone is not the same, like avorne and me. i would like to live in a mansion full of beautiful intelligent women in turtle neck sweaters and tight yoga pants. i'm positive avorne wouldn't, or would, no no, he'd be indifferent to the idea. therefore, what would be good for me, not so good for him, my wife needs lady things, i don't, it wouldn't make sense to give me lady things because she gets them, or not give them to her because i don't need them.

-Homosexuality is normal, it's naturally-occurring, anyone that says otherwise is merely furthering homophobia - thus it's only right that teachers fix these misconceptions that the parents are giving their children.

there are many congenital malformation's that are naturally occurring. just because something happens in nature, doesn't make it a good thing.

and when did marriage mean anything other than a bonding between a man and a woman?

There are some things that parents can't be entirely trusted to accurately and completely explain to their children - it'd be like giving them free roam to teach that the sun revolves around the earth and that we're all descendants of the Great God Usran'ir (who's currently taking the form of President Obama). Sometimes teachers have to step in and fill the cracks in knowledge left by parents, or set right any misconceptions that students may have on a certain subject.

agreed, but what about opinions. would it be ok for a straight teacher to tell kids that its not ok to be gay? im sure youd say no, so why is it ok for a gay teacher to tell kids that being gay is ok. im not saying no teaching about safe sex, but a child that is born with aids is not singled out in class for having aids, so a gay student shouldn't have to be singled out for being gay.

its funny someone brought up the don't ask don't tell thing. clinton enacted that rule because he believed gays should have a chance to serve their country. and because he made that compromise, gays were allowed to serve. tell me what difference it would have made to anyone if gay people are publicly singled out, i can only think of one outcome, the gay bashers, and the bigots would know who they were. no one else would care. it changes nothing to know someone is gay.

[quote]So should we just avoid health class then? These things are important and not every parent will discuss this with their child, which is one of the reasons schools do.\r\n[/quote]\r\n\r\nlast time i checked, health class didn't have anything to do with being gay or straight, it teaches you how to properly take care of your body, i think you can have health class without talking about sexual orientation.\r\n\r\n[quote]What? Can you give a link? I have never seen this.\r\n[/quote]\r\n\r\nit hasn't happened, well, not like that anyway, i said they [i]can[/i] sue. this is creating a whole new set of double standards. see, everyone is not the same, like avorne and me.  i would like to live in a mansion full of beautiful intelligent women in turtle neck sweaters and tight yoga pants. i'm positive avorne wouldn't, or would, no no, he'd be indifferent to the idea.  therefore, what would be good for me, not so good for him, my wife needs lady things, i don't, it wouldn't make sense to give me lady things because she gets them, or not give them to her because i don't need them. \r\n\r\n[quote]-Homosexuality is normal, it's naturally-occurring, anyone that says otherwise is merely furthering homophobia - thus it's only right that teachers fix these misconceptions that the parents are giving their children.[/quote]\r\n\r\nthere are many congenital malformation's that are naturally occurring. just because something happens in nature, doesn't make it a good thing.\r\n\r\nand when did marriage mean anything other than a bonding between a man and a woman?\r\n\r\n[quote]There are some things that parents can't be entirely trusted to accurately and completely explain to their children - it'd be like giving them free roam to teach that the sun revolves around the earth and that we're all descendants of the Great God Usran'ir (who's currently taking the form of President Obama). Sometimes teachers have to step in and fill the cracks in knowledge left by parents, or set right any misconceptions that students may have on a certain subject.\r\n[/quote]\r\n\r\nagreed, but what about opinions. would it be ok for a straight teacher to tell kids that its not ok to be gay? im sure youd say no, so why is it ok for a gay teacher to tell kids that being gay is ok. im not saying no teaching about safe sex, but a child that is born with aids is not singled out in class for having aids, so a gay student shouldn't have to be singled out for being gay. \r\n\r\nits funny someone brought up the don't ask don't tell thing. clinton enacted that rule because he believed gays should have a chance to serve their country. and because he made that compromise, gays were allowed to serve. tell me what difference it would have made to anyone if gay people are publicly singled out, i can only think of one outcome, the gay bashers, and the bigots would know who they were. no one else would care. it changes nothing to know someone is gay.

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Moe

1,714 posts

Blacksmith

Posted April 3, '12 1:24am UTC

would it be ok for a straight teacher to tell kids that its not ok to be gay? im sure youd say no, so why is it ok for a gay teacher to tell kids that being gay is ok.

The first is causing huge problems for young gay people in case you didn't notice. The second is helping to alleviate that problem.

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Avorne

3,085 posts

Nomad

Posted April 3, '12 1:27am UTC

it hasn't happened, well, not like that anyway, i said they can sue.

You're creating a hypothetical situation and a hypothetical outcome that's one out of a number of potential ones (and, arguably, the least likely) and then using that as a cornerstone of your argument. You also seem to be arguing that giving homosexuals equal rights will lead to a slippery slope where people can be sued merely for being straight which is extremely unlikely to say the least of it.

there are many congenital malformation's that are naturally occurring. just because something happens in nature, doesn't make it a good thing.

You can hardly compare congenital malformations to homosexuality - sexual orientation has no bearing on physical appearance or ability.

and when did marriage mean anything other than a bonding between a man and a woman?

Historically, marriage has been a lot more flexible in terms of things like how many wives a person can have, the 'one man one woman' model of marriage only really came about around the time of the New Testament.

agreed, but what about opinions. would it be ok for a straight teacher to tell kids that its not ok to be gay? im sure youd say no, so why is it ok for a gay teacher to tell kids that being gay is ok.

Because being gay IS okay - it's not like teachers have to go precisely into detail about how to have gay sex or anything but just briefly mentioning that gay people and gay couples aren't some sort of evil force that are sick and wrong is surely fine. After this point, you go on to talk about how unfair it would be to single out a gay student, by not mentioning homosexuality or by teaching that's wrong - you're singling them out in a different way.

The whole don't ask don't tell thing seemed pretty silly to me, if I'm honest, the UK has had openly-gay service personnel for quite a while.

[quote]it hasn't happened, well, not like that anyway, i said they can sue.[/quote]\r\nYou're creating a hypothetical situation and a hypothetical outcome that's one out of a number of potential ones (and, arguably, the least likely) and then using that as a cornerstone of your argument. You also seem to be arguing that giving homosexuals equal rights will lead to a slippery slope where people can be sued merely for being straight which is extremely unlikely to say the least of it. \r\n\r\n[quote]there are many congenital malformation's that are naturally occurring. just because something happens in nature, doesn't make it a good thing.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou can hardly compare congenital malformations to homosexuality - sexual orientation has no bearing on physical appearance or ability. \r\n\r\n[quote]and when did marriage mean anything other than a bonding between a man and a woman?[/quote]\r\nHistorically, marriage has been a lot more flexible in terms of things like how many wives a person can have, the 'one man one woman' model of marriage only really came about around the time of the New Testament. \r\n\r\n[quote]agreed, but what about opinions. would it be ok for a straight teacher to tell kids that its not ok to be gay? im sure youd say no, so why is it ok for a gay teacher to tell kids that being gay is ok.[/quote]\r\nBecause being gay IS okay - it's not like teachers have to go precisely into detail about how to have gay sex or anything but just briefly mentioning that gay people and gay couples aren't some sort of evil force that are sick and wrong is surely fine. After this point, you go on to talk about how unfair it would be to single out a gay student, by not mentioning homosexuality or by teaching that's wrong - you're singling them out in a different way. \r\n\r\nThe whole don't ask don't tell thing seemed pretty silly to me, if I'm honest, the UK has had openly-gay service personnel for quite a while.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted April 3, '12 5:14am UTC

i will agree that gays need to have the same basic rights as any other humans, but when it comes to marriage, it is a different thing.

No it's not a different thing. They are denied legal benefits that a marriage provides. Thus they aren't getting the same basic rights.

i was making a comparison between women having kids and men not, and hetero couples marrying and gays not.

They aren't even remotely comparable. One is a biological function the other is a human concept.

it seems to me that everyone being treated the exact same just isn't plausible.

As you said they should be given the same basic rights, this is what is meant by equality. Though given some of your examples I do disagree with those treatments as well.

there are many congenital malformation's that are naturally occurring. just because something happens in nature, doesn't make it a good thing.

Again not comparable. This is just your comparison to mental and physical disabilities and being gay again.

and when did marriage mean anything other than a bonding between a man and a woman?

Same sex marriages have existed through out history, spanning ancient dynasties in China to the Roman Empire.

agreed, but what about opinions. would it be ok for a straight teacher to tell kids that its not ok to be gay? im sure youd say no, so why is it ok for a gay teacher to tell kids that being gay is ok. im not saying no teaching about safe sex, but a child that is born with aids is not singled out in class for having aids, so a gay student shouldn't have to be singled out for being gay.

This is incredibly ignorant.
Teaching a child that it's acceptable to be gay helps prevent the singling out due to someone being gay. Teaching a child that it's not okay to be gay furthers this singling out and could even make a child who is feel self loathing for having such feelings.

its funny someone brought up the don't ask don't tell thing. clinton enacted that rule because he believed gays should have a chance to serve their country. and because he made that compromise, gays were allowed to serve. tell me what difference it would have made to anyone if gay people are publicly singled out, i can only think of one outcome, the gay bashers, and the bigots would know who they were. no one else would care. it changes nothing to know someone is gay.

All this meant what those who were gay had to hide the fact. This is bull.

[quote]i will agree that gays need to have the same basic rights as any other humans, but when it comes to marriage, it is a different thing.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNo it's not a different thing. They are denied legal benefits that a marriage provides. Thus they aren't getting the same basic rights.\r\n\r\n[quote]i was making a comparison between women having kids and men not, and hetero couples marrying and gays not.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThey aren't even remotely comparable. One is a biological function the other is a human concept. \r\n\r\n[quote]it seems to me that everyone being treated the exact same just isn't plausible.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAs you said they should be given the same basic rights, this is what is meant by equality. Though given some of your examples I do disagree with those treatments as well.\r\n\r\n[quote]there are many congenital malformation's that are naturally occurring. just because something happens in nature, doesn't make it a good thing.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAgain not comparable. This is just your comparison to mental and physical disabilities and being gay again.\r\n\r\n[quote]and when did marriage mean anything other than a bonding between a man and a woman?[/quote]\r\n\r\nSame sex marriages have existed through out history, spanning ancient dynasties in China to the Roman Empire.\r\n\r\n[quote]agreed, but what about opinions. would it be ok for a straight teacher to tell kids that its not ok to be gay? im sure youd say no, so why is it ok for a gay teacher to tell kids that being gay is ok. im not saying no teaching about safe sex, but a child that is born with aids is not singled out in class for having aids, so a gay student shouldn't have to be singled out for being gay.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThis is incredibly ignorant.\r\nTeaching a child that it's acceptable to be gay helps prevent the singling out due to someone being gay. Teaching a child that it's not okay to be gay furthers this singling out and could even make a child who is feel self loathing for having such feelings.\r\n\r\n[quote]its funny someone brought up the don't ask don't tell thing. clinton enacted that rule because he believed gays should have a chance to serve their country. and because he made that compromise, gays were allowed to serve. tell me what difference it would have made to anyone if gay people are publicly singled out, i can only think of one outcome, the gay bashers, and the bigots would know who they were. no one else would care. it changes nothing to know someone is gay.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAll this meant what those who were gay had to hide the fact. This is bull.

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freethinkercro

17 posts

Nomad

Posted April 3, '12 2:02pm UTC

Homosexuals have the same rights as everybody else.
What homosexuals want is extra rights that most heterosexuals do not need or want.
Homosexuals through legal action stifle free speech by changing the acceptability of certain words, promoting other words such as "GAY" (a word which is now a derogatory word for anything).
Through intimidation, threats & violence, the homosexual community now has more power than ever before.
Homosexuals & the acceptance of homosexuality make the western world a laughing stock amongst the new rising powers of the world.
Homosexuals will not be happy until homosexuals rule the world (which will never happen).
Homosexuals are very big, tough & aggressive in the western world but have no guts to do anything to help their kin in places like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
I have yet to hear from any homosexual how their "rights" help me as a heterosexual at all.
Selfish, arrogant, destructive & self centered is the nature of the homosexual.
Forty years ago, most homosexuals were happy not to get bashed or locked up for their deeds. Homosexuals today want more, much more.
First comes marriage, then children, then the conversion of all heterosexuals to homosexuality.
In many ways Homosexualism is similiar to Nazism. It's just a few angry guys & girls who want change(the consequences come when they get into power).
The heterophobia by homosexuals is despicable, nasty & nation destroying.
The heterophobes will not be pleased until every single hetero freedom fighter is silenced, subservient & submissive to the homosexual community.
Appeasement did not work on the Nazis & it will not work on homosexuals.
Homosexual domination in mainstream media is at the core of homosexual takeover.
Watch the personal attacks & abuse roll in against me if this comment does not get deleted.

Homosexuals have the same rights as everybody else. \r\nWhat homosexuals want is extra rights that most heterosexuals do not need or want. \r\nHomosexuals through legal action stifle free speech by changing the acceptability of certain words, promoting other words such as "GAY" (a word which is now a derogatory word for anything).\r\nThrough intimidation, threats & violence, the homosexual community now has more power than ever before.\r\nHomosexuals & the acceptance of homosexuality make the western world a laughing stock amongst the new rising powers of the world. \r\nHomosexuals will not be happy until homosexuals rule the world (which will never happen).\r\nHomosexuals are very big, tough & aggressive in the western world but have no guts to do anything to help their kin in places like Iran or Saudi Arabia.\r\nI have yet to hear from any homosexual how their "rights" help me as a heterosexual at all.\r\nSelfish, arrogant, destructive & self centered is the nature of the homosexual.\r\nForty years ago, most homosexuals were happy not to get bashed or locked up for their deeds. Homosexuals today want more, much more.\r\nFirst comes marriage, then children, then the conversion of all heterosexuals to homosexuality.\r\nIn many ways Homosexualism is similiar to Nazism. It's just a few angry guys & girls who want change(the consequences come when they get into power).\r\nThe heterophobia by homosexuals is despicable, nasty & nation destroying.\r\nThe heterophobes will not be pleased until every single hetero freedom fighter is silenced, subservient & submissive to the homosexual community.\r\nAppeasement did not work on the Nazis & it will not work on homosexuals.\r\nHomosexual domination in mainstream media is at the core of homosexual takeover.\r\nWatch the personal attacks & abuse roll in against me if this comment does not get deleted.

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