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Forums → WEPR → [necro] Is homosexuality right or wrong?

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toemas
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toemas
339 posts
Farmer

I think homosexuality is totally wrong and unnatural, what do you think?

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Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

What if a dog came out of his rib? But a man liked women?


I don't see what anything coming out of a rib has to do with anything, period. Not even getting into how it doesn't even make sense for anything like that to come out of a rib in the first place.

Just because you're &quotartners" with someone doesn't mean you're a sidekick.


And just because there's a biological function which requires two different genders doesn't mean people can't choose something else.

Because it's a sin. Simple as that.


It's only a sin if you believe it is. Since I don't believe in the Bible or any other religion, that argument is pointless to make.

You can believe it's a sin all you want, no one is going to force you to do it. I'm not sure if you think it should be illegal, but, people should be able to make their own choices unless sufficient reason to say otherwise.

If someone killed your sibling, what does it matter if it's not "supposed" to be? Well, alot. It would mean alot if someone killed your sibling, wouldn't it?


Thanks for the Red Herring. Homosexuality is absolutely -nothing- like murder. There is no victim in homosexuality, as both are consenting and no harm comes from it.
JuiceyBox
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JuiceyBox
129 posts
Peasant

I don't see what anything coming out of a rib has to do with anything, period. Not even getting into how it doesn't even make sense for anything like that to come out of a rib in the first place.


From coming out of the man's rib, the girl came out of, "her man". Which is also why men are supposed to protect women.
But if you say otherwise, that would be like saying marriage is wrong, since this law also states why a woman leaves her family and goes with her husband.

And just because there's a biological function which requires two different genders doesn't mean people can't choose something else.


Completely off from what I said.

It's only a sin if you believe it is. Since I don't believe in the Bible or any other religion, that argument is pointless to make.

You can believe it's a sin all you want, no one is going to force you to do it. I'm not sure if you think it should be illegal, but, people should be able to make their own choices unless sufficient reason to say otherwise.


Then I suppose it's okay if I take all your money, kill your family, and throw you out of a river? Since you apparently don't think it's a sin.
A sin is just a different word for violating a law. If you won't believe God, believe the government.

Thanks for the Red Herring. Homosexuality is absolutely -nothing- like murder. There is no victim in homosexuality, as both are consenting and no harm comes from it.


Same with masturbating. But it's still wrong.
It's considered adultery, therefore harm comes from it.
GhostOfHorror
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GhostOfHorror
889 posts
Nomad

From coming out of the man's rib, the girl came out of, "her man"


Yeah, it's logical to come out of someone's rib.

men are supposed to protect women.


Which is not always the case in wife beatings and whatnot.
If two gay men are living happily together and a wife was being beaten living with her husband, which is more of a sin to you?

this law also states why a woman leaves her family and goes with her husband.


Which law is this?

I suppose it's okay if I take all your money, kill your family, and throw you out of a river? Since you apparently don't think it's a sin.


Just because someone doesn't believe in God or sins doesn't mean something isn't wrong, they still have a viewpoint on things.

It's considered adultery, therefore harm comes from it.


You do know what adultery is, right?

Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not his or her spouse.


So, if someone is gay, then they are most likely not married to someone who is straight.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

From coming out of the man's rib, the girl came out of, "her man". Which is also why men are supposed to protect women.


Yes, I get that you believe that. I don't see how coming out of someone else's rib has anything to do with one's attractions.

Also, the sexism is getting annoying.

But if you say otherwise, that would be like saying marriage is wrong,


I'm honestly baffled at where you're drawing these conclusions from. How does not agreeing that women came from a rib mean marriage is wrong?

since this law also states why a woman leaves her family and goes with her husband.


Huh? What law? Do you mean biblical law or judicial law?

A woman leaves her family and lives with her husband when married, but the same is true for the man. They live together. Also, living with one another isn't even a law in the first place.

Completely off from what I said.


I honestly can't tell what you're even getting at in 3/4 of this conversation. It's like saying Banana + Jupiter = Finding Nemo. I'm not seeing connections between your thought process at all.

Then I suppose it's okay if I take all your money, kill your family, and throw you out of a river?


Seriously? Homosexuality isn't murder or theft, no matter how many times you equate it.

A sin is just a different word for violating a law. If you won't believe God, believe the government.


"Sin" is a pointless word with lots of misleading connotations. Just because I don't believe there is such a thing as sin doesn't mean I don't think laws aren't important or necessary.

Same with masturbating. But it's still wrong.


How is masturbating wrong? Even if you want to consider it wrong, that doesn't mean you have any right to stop people from doing it if they want to.

It's considered adultery, therefore harm comes from it.


How is homosexuality adultery...one partner would have to be married for it to be that.
JuiceyBox
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JuiceyBox
129 posts
Peasant

Yeah, it's logical to come out of someone's rib.


Well, God did it. Not me. Hehe.

Which is not always the case in wife beatings and whatnot.
If two gay men are living happily together and a wife was being beaten living with her husband, which is more of a sin to you?


The case may still happen in gay or queer marriages.

Which law is this?


The, "her man" thing. Not really a law, more of a statement, but you get the point .

Just because someone doesn't believe in God or sins doesn't mean something isn't wrong, they still have a viewpoint on things.


Well, that's not really what Kasic is saying.

You do know what adultery is, right?


More of having a wife, then marrying another. It can be adultery because you're not supposed to be with them, just like how you're not supposed to be with your second wife.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

Well, God did it. Not me. Hehe.


Heading this off before it balloons into something else, if we want to talk about God we should go to the Theism vs Atheism thread.

The case may still happen in gay or queer marriages.


What does homosexuality have to do with spousal abuse?

The, "her man" thing. Not really a law, more of a statement, but you get the point .


I don't, actually. When two people get married, they most often each leave their families houses if they are still living with them or move into one of the other's apartment or home. What does the phrase, "her man" have to do with any of that?

Well, that's not really what Kasic is saying.


I didn't explicitly say that in my initial post, true, but you're the one who jumped to the conclusion of not believing in sin = advocates anarchy.

It can be adultery because you're not supposed to be with them, just like how you're not supposed to be with your second wife.


That's probably one of the more thorough perversions of logic in regards to a definition I've ever seen.

1) You cannot extrapolate unrelated actions in a definition to include it under an umbrella term.

2) No one is "supposed" to be with anyone else to begin with.
JuiceyBox
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JuiceyBox
129 posts
Peasant

Also, the sexism is getting annoying.


Really? Well, I don't see it.

I'm honestly baffled at where you're drawing these conclusions from. How does not agreeing that women came from a rib mean marriage is wrong?


Read my entire post.

I honestly can't tell what you're even getting at in 3/4 of this conversation. It's like saying Banana + Jupiter = Finding Nemo. I'm not seeing connections between your thought process at all.


I was talking about one topic, then you changed it.

Seriously? Homosexuality isn't murder or theft, no matter how many times you equate it.


Neither is raping. That means it's okay?

How is masturbating wrong? Even if you want to consider it wrong, that doesn't mean you have any right to stop people from doing it if they want to.


Sexuality is meant to be a gift between a husband and wife for the purpose of babies and bonding. When it's taken out of that context, the gift is degraded and, in the case of masturbation, altogether ceases being a gift. The purpose of sexuality is gone, because the center of the sexual act becomes âmeâ instead of âwe,â and the person is trained to look to himself for sexual fulfillment. The gift of sexuality is misused for the sake of lifeless pleasure.

"Sin" is a pointless word with lots of misleading connotations. Just because I don't believe there is such a thing as sin doesn't mean I don't think laws aren't important or necessary.


Then believe in laws. Even though they're the exact same thing, and there's no proof against that, go do what you want.


If you're gonna be mean, I can just shut up. I didn't come here to fight people.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

Really? Well, I don't see it.


I'll put in italics all the things you've said which are sexist to either males or females and how severe I consider each on a scale of 1-10.

"Females were made to be suitable partners to men. And that's how it's supposed to be." 9/10. Here you are basically saying that women exist solely for the desires of men.

"From coming out of the man's rib, the girl came out of, "her man". Which is also why men are supposed to protect women." 6/10. Here you're implying that women are a man's property, and you're applying gender roles about how a man's duty is to protect a woman.

"since this law also states why a woman leaves her family and goes with her husband." 3/10. Here you're implying that a woman becomes owned or submissive when marrying.

"Sexuality is meant to be a gift between a husband and wife for the purpose of babies and bonding." 8/10. Pretty much just equated both sexes to breeding stock.
Read my entire post.


I have. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not seeing how you're drawing the conclusions for what you're saying in a lot of places.

Neither is raping. That means it's okay?


By definition there is a victim in ****. One person is non consenting.

Sexuality is meant to be a gift between a husband and wife for the purpose of babies and bonding.


So if one of the partner's is infertile, their relationship is invalid?

When it's taken out of that context, the gift is degraded and, in the case of masturbation, altogether ceases being a gift.


"Out of context?" Homosexuality IS a sexuality. That's why it's in the word. Also, I'm not sure I like the connotation of gift when applied to this statement...

The purpose of sexuality is gone,


Refer to the above. If one or both partners in a couple are infertile, does that make their relationship invalid?

because the center of the sexual act becomes âmeâ instead of âwe,â and the person is trained to look to himself for sexual fulfillment.


1) Homosexuality requires more than one person. There's still a "we" component.

2) I'm not seeing what's wrong with there being a "me" component to sexual acts either.

The gift of sexuality is misused for the sake of lifeless pleasure.


I take it from what you're saying that you think having sex for any reason other than to reproduce specifically is a sin? What's wrong with pleasure?

Then believe in laws. Even though they're the exact same thing, and there's no proof against that, go do what you want.


I do think laws are important. They aren't the exact same thing either. Sin implies judgement passed down on us from some higher being, laws are things we apply to ourselves for the benefit of all.

If you're gonna be mean, I can just shut up. I didn't come here to fight people.


I'm not being mean, I am simply refuting what you're saying. This is a debate section, if you aren't comfortable with your views being challenged then this probably isn't a good place for you to stick around.
JuiceyBox
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JuiceyBox
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Peasant

I'm not being mean, I am simply refuting what you're saying. This is a debate section, if you aren't comfortable with your views being challenged then this probably isn't a good place for you to stick around.


Wow. That's like saying it's my first time on the Internet.

I've been to tons of Forums already and debates. This is pretty much the only time I've encountered someone who's mean to a newcomer.

I'm done with this.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

This is pretty much the only time I've encountered someone who's mean to a newcomer.


Exactly what have I said that is mean? I have not insulted you or your beliefs. I have not said that you are incapable or reasoning or anything similar. I have not insinuated that you are a criminal or that you are stupid.

What I have done is question what you're saying, point out your sexist remarks (which is not to say you are a sexist) and given you my view on the same subject.

I've been to tons of Forums already and debates.


If you consider what I've said as mean, then I expect most of your debates end like this or worse.

Please, quote some of the things which I've said are mean. Nothing which I said was intended to be mean and I don't see anything that can be construed as being mean either.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

i.e Woman should stay with kids at home but they should not necessarily put up with any thing their husband wants.


Yeah they shouldn't put up with anything their husband wants, like forcing them to stay home with there kids.

Because it's a sin.


Something isn't a sin by virtue alone, what is it doing to harm another?

Your examples of murder and robbery harm another person without their consent. Where is this with homosexuality?

From coming out of the man's rib, the girl came out of, "her man". Which is also why men are supposed to protect women.


Just like how storks deliver babies. Your mythical story gets basic biology wrong on a number of accounts.

Even if the story was somehow true this would mean nothing. Why should ones origins dictate what one is allowed to do?

Same with masturbating. But it's still wrong.


masturbation isn't wrong either, in fact it's quite healthy to do.

It's considered adultery, therefore harm comes from it.


Not even close, adultery involves someone who is married. Originally this only applied to women who went off and had sexual relations with someone other than their husband. Nothing in the definition would apply to homosexuality.

Sexuality is meant to be a gift between a husband and wife for the purpose of babies and bonding.


Sexuality is also for pleasure. Maturation can offer you a better idea of your own likes that you can then carry on to a partner if you wish. As for the bonding part, this could easily apply to a homosexual couple.
idigit
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idigit
255 posts
Nomad

I WILL SAY ONE THING ON THIS AND ONE THING ONLY, I WONT COME BACK TO THIS THREAD AFTER I SAY THIS SO COMENT ABOUT IT ALL YOU WANT BUT YOU WONT HEAR A PEEP FROM ME.

DEAR ANTI-HOMOSEXUALITY PEOPLE, WHAT WILL HAVING HOMOSEXUAL PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD DO TO YOU SPECIFICALLY. WHAT DOES THIS CHANGE IN YOUR LIFE?. HOW DOES SOMEONE ENJOYING HAPPINESS WITH SOMEONE ELSE THAT THEY LOVE. HOW DOES THIS AFFECT YOU? HOW IN ANY WAY DOES HOMOSEXUALITY TAINT SOCIETY? HOW DOES IT HARM YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM?

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

YOU WONT HEAR A PEEP FROM ME

indeed whit all that shouting i wont hear a thing for a long while.
JK12345
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JK12345
5 posts
Farmer

Even if homosexuality is unnatural that wouldnt mean that it is wrong, cause whole humanity is unnatural.

"Live and let live!"

Zophia
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Zophia
9,434 posts
Scribe

you do not love your father as you would love a girl.
neither do you love your friends as you would love a girl.
you might call it love. but it really isn't love.


What is love? Baby don't hurt m- *ahem*

Hay now, that isn't really fair. There's different kinds of love, yes, but the love you feel towards family members and friends (and pets and toys and whatever else) is still definable as love.
Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_theory_of_love
Friendship and family relations are generally on the companionate side (but easily leaning more towards intimacy or commitment rather than being set in the middle).

AlsoyesI'mwaylaterespondingtothatanditwasalreadypartiallyaddressedbutIlikelinkingtothetriangle.

seems logical to have different words for it.


And we do have different words, but "love" is still the summary of a lot of affection. Feeling attracted to someone is not the only thing that love is. That's why we call it attraction. :I


I turn my back and it's like four pages.

Yeah mage, I'm with you on this one. I also turned my back and it's like four pages...


9 pages. Admittedly I didn't realise it was back for a couple of weeks...

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. I'll take this one.
[...]


Ooh, you did that one well. Thanks. Also, "society why, why you do this".

I don't really have a response for your other post, but I read it and I liked it, although you seem to get a little caught up in feeling clever. So the points you're trying to make don't really stand out, but they're good points and I am terrible with words these days. Anyway. Thank you for a good read.

And then sadness because that post got immediately forgotten due to JuiceyBox. I don't even know where to start on the ridiculous "logic" applied here, but it seems like other people already dissected it and the Box left, so I'll just- not bother. Yeah. Geez.
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