Forums → WEPR → Economical Crisis
| 34 | 9730 |
I am from Greece.As most of u know about Crisis
The Coutry tries to find a way to solve this problem!!!!!!
Lets hope we will have a government to solve this F****** problems
- 34 Replies
Step 4: Get some honest politicians in government! Preferably those who will be transparent, and not overspend the budget. I just don't see any government-cooperation now, given the whole springing up of minority parties which doesn't make for a good governing experience. Especially those Neo-Nazi criminal, women-hitting Golden Dawn punks.
Well, as for the Turkey point, doesn't Turkey want to join the EU? I would think that shows at least a partial commitment to upholding border peace. Or at least make it one of the pre-requisites. Of course, I don't know much of this, since my historical knowledge of the Turkish-Greek conflict ends in 1923.
because they tend to lower the GDP and generally the State's revenues, since as you said the revenue burden falls too heavily on honest taxpayers.
Wouldn't want to see kamikaze Hollande tax-the-rich-till-they-bleed policies though. A brain drain would shake things up even more.
Anyway, the solution to this issue is quite simple: enforce the tax laws. It's that simple.
Isn't it quite a cultural thing? Wouldn't this then be quite an effort?
Query: Keynes, Milton, or the middle road? Also, stay in EU or leave?
Yes, but which Greek government would dare to cut back on union benefits and such public spending largesse? Everyone is at fault to a certain degree; once you open the can of worms that is such generosity, no one would like to cut back on it and be seen as an electoral villain. Just look at those protests marches today at austerity. Unfortunately, the standard of living was artificially inflated in Greece and proved to be unsustainable. It was not founded on substance.
we all have to make cuts. some more then others.
then i wonder... how and why do we give greece nearly 70billion euro when we have to make a 17billion cut ourself next year. and have a debt of 373billion =S
No, don't kick them out. You risk much more than that. Greece itself would go through a period of hyperinflation.
period... they will get over it. argentina went down in the 90's they are now 1 of the fastest growing countrys.
And the woes would almost certainly spread.
did you hear the latest news that spain has got money whitout any agreement we will get back.
it's probably part of the plan to let this not happen. it's been said a few times that such plan exists. (how to safely drop greece from the euro-zone)
i have good hopes for it. and i guess when they have learned and grown to streaght, they can join if they want to (guess not) atleast whit us looking over their shoulders what they do.
So, to paraphrase you Nicho, the standard of living of the politicians and their buddies was artificially inflated in Greece and proved to be unsustainable
but the people somehow have the need to own their owns house instead of renting it. had something to do whit honor. so many people who actualy can't afford to buy a house still bought houses whit the banks money.
I pay 8,000 Euros in taxes, even though I barely earn 11,000. **** yeah, I am going to protest against austerity!
The same Greek politicians that ***** and pillaged the state, now talk about "sacrifices" and austerity! For crying out loud, this is madness!
If austerity means raping and pillaging the *honest and law-abiding* taxpayers -again-, in order for the corrupt politicians to remain in power, austerity can go screw itself for all I care!
logical point of view. but if you leave the euro. we don't have to safe you anymore to safe our own currency. would you like that better?
The Greek military has a ridiculous few thousand tanks for example.
realy, tanks?
they are islands. they need ships not tanks xD lol
I concur with most of the things you said, so ... yea.
are you sure your greek. =P
doesn't Turkey want to join the EU? I would think that shows at least a partial commitment to upholding border peace.
turkey does not meet the human rights policy of the EU. aslong they don't fix it. it's very unlikely to happen.
turkey is the longest waiting country to join the EU. longer then estonia or latvia who already have joined now.
doesn't Turkey want to join the EU? I would think that shows at least a partial commitment to upholding border peace.
turkey does not meet the human rights policy of the EU. aslong they don't fix it. it's very unlikely to happen.
turkey is the longest waiting country to join the EU. longer then estonia or latvia who already have joined now.
Turkey was once apart of the Ottoman empire, which collapsed during WWI. Frankly, it was because of the war that caused it to collapse, what with all of the revolutionizing. They were on the Central Aliance, but, fo the most part, were just in the war because the US was opposing them when they were killing millions of Armenian Christians. Believe me, they couldn't face any type of war without help. Too bad they choose the wrong side.
Oops, forgot to put my point in there. Anyways, I'm not to sure Turkey would like to join anything with any other country after how much they were screwed after WWI. They were pretty much left for dead by every country that hated them, and every country that tried to help them.
I assume te EU is an alliance team, correct? Much like the United Nations? You said they were trying to hold peace together.
Anyways, all of that was the opinion from a guy who's not well educated with Turkey-Greece relations.
assume te EU is an alliance team, correct? Much like the United Nations?
the UN put their noses in all the countrys.
the EU put their noses mainly in the EU members. and if you don't want to join you don't have to. so we wont be bugging you. =P
The EU is more an economic and political union than an alliance. NATO covers their military relations.
No, Turkey has always wanted to join the EU, making bids since 1987, and being a member of prior European organizations.
Step 4: Get some honest politicians in government! Preferably those who will be transparent, and not overspend the budget.
Exactly. Greek politics are in dire need of honest fresh faces!
Especially those Neo-Nazi criminal, women-hitting Golden Dawn punks.
Golden Dawn is useless. They are a one trick pony if I've ever seen one! Golden Dawn deals with only one issue: immigration. They just don't care about anything else.
Plus, they don't really believe in democracy. So, thank goodness, they won't participate in any government.
Wouldn't want to see kamikaze Hollande tax-the-rich-till-they-bleed policies though. A brain drain would shake things up even more.
Personally, to be honest, I don't think it's necessary to increase anybody's taxes right now. Rich people should simply pay the taxes they are supposed to.
However, unfortunately, the State must look for ways to grow revenues in order to pay down the national debt, thus -if and only if the budget fails- one solution could be boosting the taxes on the top 1% of earners by maximum 2%.
But, again, I don't think that will be necessary, as long as everyone (including the top 1%) pays the vast majority of his taxes.
Isn't it quite a cultural thing? Wouldn't this then be quite an effort?
Yes, changing a culture of illegality won't be an easy thing, nonetheless in my opinion it's doable. Generally people just need an incentive to change their behavior!
You know, studies have shown that economic incentives very often motivate human behavior change.
Query: Keynes, Milton, or the middle road?
I think that Greece will need to take a middle-road approach if it hopes to improve. The Greek economy is weak in any economic framework, Keynesian, neo-liberal or even socialist. Frankly, choosing a rigid Keynesian or liberal approach is like trying to run before learning how to walk.
Greece needs to take it nice and easy or we are going to have another train wreck.
Also, stay in EU or leave?
Stay, there is no other choice. A Greek exit could trigger a wave of similar departures by debt-strapped countries like Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Italy, which would drive up the borrowing costs for all of Europe. Such an outcome would spur bank runs and capital flight in those nations.
Leaving the Euro -now- would be very damaging for everyone.
how and why do we give greece nearly 70billion euro when we have to make a 17billion cut ourself next year. and have a debt of 373billion =S
Apropos, Spain, the Netherlands, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Belgium will fail to meet spending targets and may also miss the deficit target in 2013.
but if you leave the euro. we don't have to safe you anymore to safe our own currency. would you like that better?
Sure, you won't have to save Greece, but you will have to save Belgium or whoever. For the foreseeable future, you just will always have a country or countries to save.
are you sure your greek. =P
I am Greek-Italian-Austrian.
Apropos, Spain, the Netherlands, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Belgium will fail to meet spending targets and may also miss the deficit target in 2013.
that realy isn't a answerd for my question.
but that isn't the whole list tho
Sure, you won't have to save Greece, but you will have to save Belgium or whoever. For the foreseeable future, you just will always have a country or countries to save.
belgium doesn't has that big of a problem. it was because they didn't had a government for nearly 2 year. that they felt back on the bookkeeping. now they are paying again.
spain we already gave 100billion whitout agreements. i case you fail the make a government this weekend. italy seems to going the right way aswell. slowly and not steady but still.
ireland.... i guess we all already for got about them.
iceland.... less then 1% we can safe those 300.000 people no prob.
you just will always have a country or countries to save.
not when all the countrys have enoufg discipline to keep their finance alright.
that realy isn't a answerd for my question.
Could you please rephrase your question? So, I can provide you with a more satisfying answer.
spain we already gave 100billion whitout agreements. i case you fail the make a government this weekend.
This bailout covers Spain's banks, but not its regions. The Spanish regions are heavily indebted and may need bailing out by the federal government, thus Spain is not safe at all. Moreover, the bailout itself also threatens to make Spain's situation even worse. The Spanish government borrowed the money and then will loan it to the banks, this means the bailout will add to Spain's sovereign debt. Y' know adding sovereign debt when you're in a sovereign debt crisis is definitely not a good idea.
And, if Spain goes down then Italy will too!
not when all the countrys have enoufg discipline to keep their finance alright.
Frankly, it's probably too late for discipline. It's all going down the drain!
Frankly, it's probably too late for discipline. It's all going down the drain!
in 10 year it will all be over and we have to think about that time. and take the punches of the fails that happend until then we just have to take.
non of this realy matter in the long run. we should look at the long run not the 100mtr sprint.
This bailout covers Spain's banks, but not its regions. The Spanish regions are heavily indebted and may need bailing out by the federal government, thus Spain is not safe at all. Moreover, the bailout itself also threatens to make Spain's situation even worse. The Spanish government borrowed the money and then will loan it to the banks, this means the bailout will add to Spain's sovereign debt. Y' know adding sovereign debt when you're in a sovereign debt crisis is definitely not a good idea.
And, if Spain goes down then Italy will too!
Yes, Goumas is correct. The problem in Spain is with the regional cajas banks. Spain is the most heavily banked country in the world, with a ratio of 1 bank to every 1000 people, due to the loose and lax flow of capital and loans a few years ago. Coupled with the property bubble, near a quarter of property is owned by such banks now if I'm not wrong, and that's why Spain is in trouble.
Could you please rephrase your question? So, I can provide you with a more satisfying answer.
well your answerd was that other countrys will not meet the targets next year.
but my question was, why we safe a other country, while we have to cut ourself to meet these targets and causes our national debt to increase by nearly 20%
but my question was, why we safe a other country, while we have to cut ourself to meet these targets and causes our national debt to increase by nearly 20%
Running a BoP deficit once in a while is not a bad thing. It's only bad if your BoP is in permanent disequilibrium. Consider the consequences of not saving others; The common currency potentially collapses, which makes trade costs go up phenomenally given that now you have complex exchange rates, a massive loss of confidence by investors, leading to perhaps a repeat of Japan's ''Lost Decade'', political distrust, civil strife and more. Running a few years of BoP deficits is not as painful as this.
Btw, Party if you want to understand the Crisis more in depth, the recent issue of The Economist has a brilliant article in its first few pages.
You must be logged in to post a reply!