Thread Background Coming from a long-time lurker born in 2008, I have noticed that Armor Games is facing a recent "slump" of activity. In other terms, Armor Games is becoming inactive. In my quest for answers, I've contacted several Armor Games users, ranging from new users to veterans. Thinking that I gave people something to think about for the day, Ernie15 gave me a bold idea to convert these ideas into a thread where one can give his/her ideas on the matter instead of letting this issue be small-talk. In many's minds, this is an issue that needs to be addressed to immediately. There have been threads like this, but this is the central HUB of what we view of Armor Games today.
Armor Games, I give you The User's View.
Armor Games Background AG3, a major update to the Armor Games world, has been in development for around 2 years. There are tons of beta testers for the website. Prior to and starting at the development of AG3, Armor Games was once a bustling "city," if you will, of ideas traveling by means of public forum posting to comments to one another, or "small talk." Many of these users have left for reasons we will discuss and are being replaced by users we will later discuss.
Staff Changes Late 2011, Cormyn, a very popular admin, resigned from his duties and became a regular user. He was somewhat replaced with Justin Royster, aka username jroyster22.
Part 1: Cormyn Cormyn was undoubtedly known for his ability to be publicly active within the community and was often described as strict. As strict as he was, he kept the trash out and helped shape our modern-day Armor Games. He wrote code for the community, laid down a lot of the rules, appointed moderators alongside the moderation team, and, short and sweet, held Armor Games together. In many people's opinions, he was the administrator's community face of Armor Games. Once Cormyn left, jroyster22, alongside his duties with AG3, became the one to contact if you needed help. Justin Royster had big shoes to fill, and so far, he's done a moderate job. He prefers to contact via email, taking away from that on-site communication charm. In my opinion, Justin Royster has been a little vague with his duties. I and others have complained that Armor Games needs a new head, and if Justin Royster was a little more open, we'd have that strong, great leader. I am not criticizing his work- I understand he's busy. I'm just asking that he showed a little more of his face.
Part 2: Inactivity Sadly, many of Armor Games' moderators have been caught up with daily life to successfully fulfill their duties on a daily basis. Similarly, admins are busy preparing AG3 for its release and have a lot to do. I understand they have lives as well. Many other new members have complained that it is impossible to get in touch with anyone on the staff team. Cormyn had written moderator-selection software, and many are thinking, if it is still available after Cormyn's resignation, perhaps it could be used to find another addition to the moderator team. Freakenstein has been a fantastic addition, but I feel as though we need more. I'm not going to name names because I respect what our moderators do; I feel as though we need more. Maybe it's time we eliminated the "small staff team" tradition for the time being until we recover. As for admins, we don't need a lot, but just one public face to get contact with would be fantastic.
Migration I know AG3 is going to be very different. I know forum activity has sunk. I know your friends have left. Because of multiple things, many users, newbies and veterans alike, have moved on to different websites. This is not going to help our inactivity problem. It will only make it worse. I am not only asking you all to stay, but I am asking you to help out. We can't sit around and let our users leave. Part of it is our problem; we can make things interesting again. We can make people want to spend all of their time here. We can show people Armor Games is the best darn website out there!
Generation Transition Jeol brought this to my attention and it struck me. What if the reason so many people are leaving is because they are older? Now, some people will never change, but others will grow and move on. And, who replaces them?
Part 1: Veterans It's summer. You've finished school and want to enjoy the outdoors. You've finished school and have to work. You've finished school and want to try something new. Whatever it is, whether you've gotten too old for Armor Games, or have something else taking up your time, you can't visit your favorite website in the world. You know what? That's quite OK. Just remember to drop by once in a while and talk to your old friends. Many users are finding that they are having difficulties connecting with new people if they leave right away. Sadly, this leaves many users bored and craving for a good conversation.
Part 2: New Users The size of Armor Games' user list is rising exponentially- it's skyrocketing! Most would think this would create more activity, wouldn't it? Frankly, no. Many games require an account for online saving to work, and the new generation replacing the previous one seems to be filled with people who join, stay active for a day, and quit dealing with the forums, leaving a large gap to be filled by no one.
Armor Games v3 As mentioned earlier, AG3 is being developed. By my count, there are currently 5 admins developing it. Unfortunately, users are complaining because there is little or no status updates on what's going on. Not to sound demanding, but more frequent updates could make the waiting all the easier. Also, the new achievement system may scare veterans who are used to and have gained recognition by the current AP system. AG3 will also result in a clean slate for the forums... By deleting all of the material there. Of course, much of the material is repeatable, but many veterans have good memories of posting here.
Conclusion We've lost the face of the admins, Cormyn, and would like to have another public face again. Many moderators are busy with their lives and some more help would be fantastic. A lot of people have given up on Armor Games and have outright quit. Old faces are being replaced with people who aren't as devoted the site. AG3 is coming with big changes, but has gone very quiet recently.
~Salvidian
Those who contributed to this information in some way, shape, or form -jeol -Ernie15 -daleks -Skeleton_Pilot -Cenere -GhostOfMatrix -MrDayCee -johnmerz
Interestingly enough, these comments lean towards the facts that Cormyn was strict, informative, and was public. All 3 of the answers state that after Cormyn left, in late 2011, AG went downhill. Could it possible that AG started its slump in early 2012? Answers say, yes.
If automatic ligature strangulation via Internet was possible, oh wow would I have fun.
This place has been going downhill since the beginning of 2010, long before Cormyn took his bull**** control over the forums, a place he was never supposed to stick his nose in the first place. Upon the exit of Carlie and Flipski, and no one being community admin, he just took it upon himself. Perhaps you don't know that, but that's what happened.
He did nothing but piss people off and leave dozens of the newbies who had known nothing prior to go droopy mouthed all over him. He was a waste. Was he open about AG3? Yes, that was his job. The rest of his controlling crap? No, that was not his business, and he should have stayed out of it. But hey, absolute power corrupts absolutely. As much as I hate him for it, I would have done the same had I been given power over everybody.
If automatic ligature strangulation via Internet was possible, oh wow would I have fun.
This place has been going downhill since the beginning of 2010, long before Cormyn took his bull**** control over the forums, a place he was never supposed to stick his nose in the first place. Upon the exit of Carlie and Flipski, and no one being community admin, he just took it upon himself. Perhaps you don't know that, but that's what happened.
He did nothing but piss people off and leave dozens of the newbies who had known nothing prior to go droopy mouthed all over him. He was a waste. Was he open about AG3? Yes, that was his job. The rest of his controlling crap? No, that was not his business, and he should have stayed out of it. But hey, absolute power corrupts absolutely. As much as I hate him for it, I would have done the same had I been given power over everybody.
Based off of answers. Did I really need to put a disclaimer in there somewhere? Many of the people I interviewed didn't participate in the thread earlier; I did this, frankly, after Xzeno criticized me on my choice of people for the OP.
I tried to make this as unbiased as possible; I couldn't interview people who didn't know anything about AG. Tat would've been a disaster.
Orion raises a good point. In particular, I'd like to reinforce a very important point:
The analysis you're seeing is not representative of the opinions of AG as a whole, or the most important members of Armor Games. In particular, participation on this thread has been mostly limited to people of a similar type of view as this thread seems to seek to advance. As such, this thread, which to my understanding seeks greater visibility to the administration, represents only a small portion of the AG demographic.
Your recent interviews do seem to have put effort into diversifying responses. As you are aware, your interviews and analysis will suffer from a flawed, biased sample and conformation bias. I assume you know that, and I won't hold it against you because attempting to minimize those issues, which is all anyone can do.
That said, I would suggest that, in drawing conclusions, we remember two key, easy-to-remember-because-they're-catchy phrases: 1. correlation does not equal causation. 2. discrete empirical observations are not sufficient for informing social policy.
On the first: specifically, I don't think Cormyn's departure was responsible for the decreased activity thereafter. Rather, I believe, as Orion suggests, that forum activity was already waning by the time Cormyn arrived. I do believe that his presence granted the appearance of increased activity, simply because it was interesting activity, however sparse. If anything, Cormyn's stint on AG demonstrates that activity isn't the only measure of a healthy forum.
The true decrease in activity was not when Cormyn left. It was before that. Things began to slow down before the summer, and everyone, all the veterans, we all thought that the summer would bring tons of new activity like it always did. But it didn't. One summer it just didn't. And things haven't been the same since. The weird thing is that I don't know why no one came that summer. No one knows why.
On the second point: While we may gain factual evidence, or perceptions of facts, from these interviews, jumping to normative conclusions is ill-advised. Analysis is required, and not just the simple collection of facts. In particular, I mean to assert that it is impossible to accurately discern the true nature of the situation without heavy analysis of esoteric philosophical concepts.
Moreover, we're seeing an incomplete picture of the situation. Trust me, Cormyn was NOT good for Armor Games, no matter what benefits you think he may have had. If that's what it takes to have an active forum, I'd rather have a dead one.
Now Sal, believe me when I say this: I like you. I like everyone, sure, but you seem like a good dude, and you actually want to improve the forums. I think that we can do that, together (we being the users). So here are some tips for how to help have friends and work together:
-don't post libel about CT on people's profiles. -especially don't do so in a vein attempt to gain people's trust. -maybe actually come to CT sometime and see what it's like and talk to some regulars about the state of the forums.
The analysis you're seeing is not representative of the opinions of AG as a whole, or the most important members of Armor Games. In particular, participation on this thread has been mostly limited to people of a similar type of view as this thread seems to seek to advance.
I've seen a lot of ideas come into the thread and be changed. Actually, Cormyn's strictness was a pretty big thing. On the OP I made the claim that strict = god, however, I've come to realize that Cormyn's strictness was not always good. People have yet to realize that this idea has changed. Cormyn's informative nature combined with Carlie's personable attitude is what is needed. When AG2 was released, AG3 was not being made. Carlie was flawed in that she simply couldn't inform the community of AG3 simply because it didn't exist. Posts made to stimulate the thread's sake? I don't see this. Ideas have been changed. Frankly, I ignore a lot of "good job" posts because they don't help.
As such, this thread, which to my understanding seeks greater visibility to the administration, represents only a small portion of the AG demographic.
It does only represent a small portion of AG demographic. The entire forums are based on volunteerism, and I'm only limited to discuss the ideas that people volunteer to bring up. If "negative" people aren't willing to deny claims ideas will never change. This being in a thread format, provides a huge flaw. "Negative" people are what changed the ideas of Cormyn's strictness, y'know.
That said, I would suggest that, in drawing conclusions, we remember two key, easy-to-remember-because-they're-catchy phrases: 1. correlation does not equal causation. 2. discrete empirical observations are not sufficient for informing social policy.
The first "hrase" is actually something I realized being a huge mistake on my behalf. I should not have analysed the answers in such a way, and will not do it again. The 2nd "hrase" is a flaw I don't know how to repair, and I don't think anyone else wold know how to repair. Again, volunteerism is negatively affecting the thread. But, I tried correcting it within the interviews, by trying diversity out. I can't interview everyone, y'know.
The true decrease in activity was not when Cormyn left. It was before that. Things began to slow down before the summer, and everyone, all the veterans, we all thought that the summer would bring tons of new activity like it always did. But it didn't. One summer it just didn't. And things haven't been the same since. The weird thing is that I don't know why no one came that summer. No one knows why.
That's actually a very interesting point. I couldn't tell you why, either. I'm sure you know as well as I do that I can't simply 'accept' that claim without any other evidence.
On the second point: While we may gain factual evidence, or perceptions of facts, from these interviews, jumping to normative conclusions is ill-advised. Analysis is required, and not just the simple collection of facts. In particular, I mean to assert that it is impossible to accurately discern the true nature of the situation without heavy analysis of esoteric philosophical concepts.
Anther flaw on my behalf. I only have the 'review version,' in other words I didn't completely do a full analysis. But I did jump to conclusions too early. This was a test project, just to see how things would go. These things will be corrected in future projects.
Now Sal, believe me when I say this: I like you. I like everyone, sure, but you seem like a good dude, and you actually want to improve the forums. I think that we can do that, together (we being the users). So here are some tips for how to help have friends and work together:
-don't post libel about CT on people's profiles. -especially don't do so in a vein attempt to gain people's trust. -maybe actually come to CT sometime and see what it's like and talk to some regulars about the state of the forums.
People were interested in CT. That's why I chose the topic. I received information I didn't ask for weeks ago. I wasn't going to make any analysis on anything. This was a timeline. All was to be based on what people built together. I'd be more than willing to change the topic if necessary.
The analysis you're seeing is not representative of the opinions of AG as a whole, or the most important members of Armor Games. In particular, participation on this thread has been mostly limited to people of a similar type of view as this thread seems to seek to advance.
I've seen a lot of ideas come into the thread and be changed. Actually, Cormyn's strictness was a pretty big thing. On the OP I made the claim that strict = god, however, I've come to realize that Cormyn's strictness was not always good. People have yet to realize that this idea has changed. Cormyn's informative nature combined with Carlie's personable attitude is what is needed. When AG2 was released, AG3 was not being made. Carlie was flawed in that she simply couldn't inform the community of AG3 simply because it didn't exist. Posts made to stimulate the thread's sake? I don't see this. Ideas have been changed. Frankly, I ignore a lot of "good job" posts because they don't help.
As such, this thread, which to my understanding seeks greater visibility to the administration, represents only a small portion of the AG demographic.
It does only represent a small portion of AG demographic. The entire forums are based on volunteerism, and I'm only limited to discuss the ideas that people volunteer to bring up. If "negative" people aren't willing to deny claims ideas will never change. This being in a thread format, provides a huge flaw. "Negative" people are what changed the ideas of Cormyn's strictness, y'know.
That said, I would suggest that, in drawing conclusions, we remember two key, easy-to-remember-because-they're-catchy phrases: 1. correlation does not equal causation. 2. discrete empirical observations are not sufficient for informing social policy.
The first "hrase" is actually something I realized being a huge mistake on my behalf. I should not have analysed the answers in such a way, and will not do it again. The 2nd "hrase" is a flaw I don't know how to repair, and I don't think anyone else wold know how to repair. Again, volunteerism is negatively affecting the thread. But, I tried correcting it within the interviews, by trying diversity out. I can't interview everyone, y'know.
The true decrease in activity was not when Cormyn left. It was before that. Things began to slow down before the summer, and everyone, all the veterans, we all thought that the summer would bring tons of new activity like it always did. But it didn't. One summer it just didn't. And things haven't been the same since. The weird thing is that I don't know why no one came that summer. No one knows why.
That's actually a very interesting point. I couldn't tell you why, either. I'm sure you know as well as I do that I can't simply 'accept' that claim without any other evidence.
On the second point: While we may gain factual evidence, or perceptions of facts, from these interviews, jumping to normative conclusions is ill-advised. Analysis is required, and not just the simple collection of facts. In particular, I mean to assert that it is impossible to accurately discern the true nature of the situation without heavy analysis of esoteric philosophical concepts.
Anther flaw on my behalf. I only have the 'review version,' in other words I didn't completely do a full analysis. But I did jump to conclusions too early. This was a test project, just to see how things would go. These things will be corrected in future projects.
Now Sal, believe me when I say this: I like you. I like everyone, sure, but you seem like a good dude, and you actually want to improve the forums. I think that we can do that, together (we being the users). So here are some tips for how to help have friends and work together:
-don't post libel about CT on people's profiles. -especially don't do so in a vein attempt to gain people's trust. -maybe actually come to CT sometime and see what it's like and talk to some regulars about the state of the forums.
People were interested in CT. That's why I chose the topic. I received information I didn't ask for weeks ago. I wasn't going to make any analysis on anything. This was a timeline. All was to be based on what people built together. I'd be more than willing to change the topic if necessary.
People were interested in CT. That's why I chose the topic. I received information I didn't ask for weeks ago. I wasn't going to make any analysis on anything. This was a timeline. All was to be based on what people built together. I'd be more than willing to change the topic if necessary.
Oh, I don't mean the timeline business, I was referencing this gem:
Salvidian says: Posted at 10:21pm on 7/20/2012
That's ridiculous. I don't use CountingTime on account of needing a moderator's approval, and I haven't found the time or desire to ask to join. I've looked at it, and about 75% of the conversations are flame wars, and every other word is a swear. It's a typical chat room, which is ironic compared to how calm AG is supposed to be. It doesn't reflect the site and Asherlee (Or whoever made it) should have put some censors in, and included some banning privileges for moderators. Almost all chats have these basic features.
There's just not much you can do with people. Oh well, at least Gantic isn't an idiot and believed Skater.
I think you're selling yourself short. You've done a good job with the interviews and providing opening discussion for the interviews in general. I think the concept and execution were largely good. While I do think the analysis has a few salient flaws, most of which the correlation-causation disconnect addresses, that is why it's posted on a forum. Generating discussion about the issue is mainly facilitated by the presentation of information. Perhaps you should consider doing follow-ups on the last project at the opening of the next. A sort of summary of the discussion the initial look generated.
I scrapped the 2nd PP. I'm not going to start a project like that.
Anywho...
Ideas for the 2nd project are open on my profile. I'll do a follow up of the first project sometime in the nearing future. The full version of the first pickle project will be done in a few days.
I'll probably create a poll if I do something that can handle only a few, select answers.
Let him defend himself, Moonfairy. I assume that if your reading of the quote is accurate, Salvidian would be more than happy to support it. It may be a simple misunderstanding that can be cleared up easily.
If not, I would state that, regardless, avoidance is tantamount to hostility and this project cannot afford to make enemies.
Do a general poll across the board. More representative.
I agree. So far we have been working off of assumptions and personal opinions or ideas. A poll could be very beneficial to finding out how the entire community feels.
That comment wasn't a good comment. I was confused, like what Moon said. I got it mixed up. I mean, hell, the letters can be switched around to be the other. >_>
I'll get the Shoutbox up when I can. I need to figure out how to put in filters and do the administrative stuff. I need to do these things because I want it on my profile. After all, who likes 3rd-part websites? *cough*GetSat*cough*
If not, I would state that, regardless, avoidance is tantamount to hostility and this project cannot afford to make enemies.
Can't argue with you there. I dislike being the "frontman" for such a major thing. That's why I don't generally "express my opinion" much.
I am going to laugh like a maniac, if this means the staff is getting custom armatars. Good way to show only staff members can get good stuff, eh, after ignoring any try at getting an armatar contest up and running.
