ForumsWEPRwhats the difference?

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killersup10
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killersup10
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Jester

so,just about everybody has ruled out the possiblity of their being spcific Gods for a element.Such as the greek Gods,what is the difference however between believing in "mythology" and say for instance a Christan religion.Why is it more beliveable?Does anybody have a answer to why it is more believed that their is one God and not many? Why do people who believe in a God not realize that they are believing in the same thing that they also call rubbish?

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VirtualLife
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VirtualLife
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Peasant

That's the thing about religion. You may believe that it is complete garbage, but someone else may believe that it is true. It is just like atheism. Some people say that it is foolish that you believe that the universe just magically happened. Some people believe in aliens, while others call them crazy. You just have to accept that you might be right or wrong. But the most important thing is that you have to accept others, no matter how crazy their opinion may seem.

As far as Christianity, it is more believable than say mythology because we can definitively prove that mythology did not happen. We know why there are diseases now and we know how certain things were created. We don't just make up stories to prove that they happened. That is the thing mythology was created to tell how something happened.

Now, like it or not, there is no way to definitively prove that Christianity is completely false. Sure, you may be able to prove that parts of it are false, but as a whole you can't. That is the main difference - major religions that are present today cannot be completely proven false. You will never be able to scientifically prove if there is or isn't a God. You just have to believe one way or the other.

I don't mean to sound rude, but try to be a little more accepting of people. I know it sounds hard, but I've been trying to work on it and it has gotten better with me. I know that some people are extremely ignorant about religion and think that their religion is the only right way, but most people are more accepting than given credit for. I am somewhat in the middle. I don't wholly believe but I also don't wholly disbelieve.

So in answer to your question I suppose that that is the beauty of religion, you chose what to believe, no matter how crazy it seems.

Kasic
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Kasic
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As far as Christianity, it is more believable than say mythology because we can definitively prove that mythology did not happen. We know why there are diseases now and we know how certain things were created. We don't just make up stories to prove that they happened. That is the thing mythology was created to tell how something happened.


We've directly disproved an "instant creation" 6000 or so years ago as told in the Bible, Torah, and Koran. People still believe it though.

Gods,what is the difference however between believing in "mythology" and say for instance a Christan religion.


Large amounts of people still believe in one.

Why is it more beliveable?


It's not really. Just there are still people around to indoctrinate their kids and places for like-minded people to gather to reinforce each other's belief.

Does anybody have a answer to why it is more believed that their is one God and not many?


Hinduism is probably the largest religion which is polytheistic and has almost a billion followers.

It's just that more believe in Christianity/Islam and thus more are born into those religions, perpetuating the numbers of those who believe.

Why do people who believe in a God not realize that they are believing in the same thing that they also call rubbish?


When "faith" is espoused as a value, pretty much every thing else regarding that subject becomes a "no go zone" for thought. Faith is blind belief, and believers are taught to not question religious teaching/history/morals/values/etc.

If they are "taught" to question it, they are also taught to just accept whatever it is they find fault in it as "God's will/unknowable/how the world is/work of the devil" etc.
Pegasus16
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Pegasus16
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Peasant

We've directly disproved an "instant creation" 6000 or so years ago as told in the Bible, Torah, and Koran. People still believe it though.

Wait, how have we directly disproved this?
VirtualLife
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VirtualLife
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It's not really. Just there are still people around to indoctrinate their kids and places for like-minded people to gather to reinforce each other's belief.


It's not indoctrination any more than atheism is indoctrination. Indoctrination is forcing the kid to believe that from an early age. I don't think that you should force, but I don't think it is indoctrination. I had religion from an early age but my parent's didn't force it. I don't feel like I was indoctrinated and many of my very religious friends have unreligious parents. I think that some people are gravitated towards religion and some aren't.

We've directly disproved an "instant creation" 6000 or so years ago as told in the Bible, Torah, and Koran. People still believe it though.


I don't know that the Bible teaches instant creation 6000 years ago. They think it was much, much longer ago. I know that there are those who believe in instant creation, but I don't agree with them. The one thing that keeps me from atheism is how things got there. Like where was the material for the big bang created. If someone could definitively answer this with little question then I would be willing to accept it. But right now I lean more towards agnostic than anything else.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Wait, how have we directly disproved this?


We know through astronomy, physics, and geology (plus more) that the earth cannot have been around for less than billions of years. Unless you want to take the path that God is deceptive, which opens up a whole other can of worms, there's no getting around it.

Indoctrination is forcing the kid to believe that from an early age.


As Oxford defines it: "teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically:
broadcasting was a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses"

Indoctrinate

So yes, parents are indoctrinating their children by taking them to a church and telling them that their religion is true because they say it is and that God is good. They aren't teaching their children to question that religion, but to accept it as 100% true and unquestionable.

I had religion from an early age but my parent's didn't force it. I don't feel like I was indoctrinated and many of my very religious friends have unreligious parents.


A good reason to not feel indoctrinated if you weren't forced to believe it. Many children are, however. They are punished by their parents for not believing it, get lectured when questioning, are forced to attend worship and participate in ceremonies/traditions.

I think that some people are gravitated towards religion and some aren't.


That's something which neuroscientists have been researching I believe.

I don't know that the Bible teaches instant creation 6000 years ago.


The literal interpretation of the Bible teaches that everything was created as is. Given time-lines of people's lives in the Bible and historical events which correlate to those stories, one can form a timeline that the Earth is no older than 10,000 years at the extreme end.

There are also people who take the "1000 days of man are equal to a day of God" which gives us the 6000 year base line with the "On the 7th day he rested."

Either way, the majority of Christians believe in a young earth.

They think it was much, much longer ago.


Some do. Most don't.

The one thing that keeps me from atheism is how things got there.


There's nothing wrong about admitting that we don't know.

In my opinion, believing something which is horribly contradictory, unable to be tested, hearsay and irrational for the simple reason that we don't yet have all the answers is the equivalent of an ignorant 6 year old telling making up a story to explain something which he doesn't have the slightest clue about in order to look knowledgeable.

Like where was the material for the big bang created.


As I said above, we don't know yet. There's theories about it, which you can just Google and Wikipedia to get a basic understanding/list. Not really the topic of this thread though so I'll keep off the subject.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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We've directly disproved an "instant creation" 6000 or so years ago as told in the Bible, Torah, and Koran. People still believe it though.

Science keeps on changing, what is right now, can be wrong tomorrow, for example once heroin was thought excellent drug for cough now it isn't.
So, nothing is certain in science.
killersup10
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killersup10
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Jester

So, nothing is certain in science.



Okay,another question.Which is more certian? This is hard to word so please bear with Killersup.Okay,so is there a higher percentage of religion that is correct or science? the absolute truth,when there is 100% chance of it being correct.Does science have a higher percentage? Or does another religion have a higher percentage that it correct?
killersup10
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killersup10
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Jester

of religion




okay so Killersup worded that incorectly.He ment a single religion,is there a single religion that is "more" correct then science?
Kasic
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Kasic
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for example once heroin was thought excellent drug for cough now it isn't.


It was thought that before anyone really ever tested it...science (as in the scientific method) was used to determine that no, it isn't.

Unless you wish to provide some links?

Science keeps on changing, what is right now, can be wrong tomorrow,


It corrects itself, yes. That's what makes it oh so much better than static untestable beliefs.

Even -if- everything we think we know is wrong (not likely, seeing as how we use that knowledge daily in many things) I'd rather change what I think is true to something more valid than just stick with the same thing which we know is not, but claim everything else is wrong.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Forgot to address this.

You can't put a % chance on fact. It either is or isn't. Percentages aren't something you can apply to something which would happen no matter what, or already have happened, or "varying degrees of truth."

What is, is.

Wizard's 6th Rule >.>

"The first law of reason is this: what exists, exists; what is, is; and from this irreducible bedrock principle, all knowledge is built. It is the foundation from which life is embraced.
Thinking is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts nor are they a means to discover them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality; it is our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss that we refuse to see. Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason's light. In rejecting reason, refusing to think, one embraces death. Quoting Zedd: "...most important rule there is...The Sixth Rule is the hub upon which all rules turn. It is not only the most important rule, but the simplest. Nonetheless, it is the one most often ignored and violated, and by far the most despised. It must be wielded in spite of the ceaseless, howling protests of the wicked.""

I love that series...

Salvidian
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We know through astronomy, physics, and geology (plus more) that the earth cannot have been around for less than billions of years. Unless you want to take the path that God is deceptive, which opens up a whole other can of worms, there's no getting around it.


But then you get people saying the devil changed everything to make it seem like the earth is 6 billion years old.

As Oxford defines it: "teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically:
broadcasting was a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses"

Indoctrinate

So yes, parents are indoctrinating their children by taking them to a church and telling them that their religion is true because they say it is and that God is good. They aren't teaching their children to question that religion, but to accept it as 100% true and unquestionable.


I hate it when this happens. Spreading their belief through use of propaganda and the like. It's blasphemous.

As I said above, we don't know yet. There's theories about it, which you can just Google and Wikipedia to get a basic understanding/list. Not really the topic of this thread though so I'll keep off the subject.


And VirtualLife, the theist, gives a crushing blow to Kasic's atheistic values! What a show!

Haha, I just wanted to point out that's an atheist's "weakness."

Science keeps on changing, what is right now, can be wrong tomorrow, for example once heroin was thought excellent drug for cough now it isn't.
So, nothing is certain in science.


We have certainty in science. Laws are things that we have proven to be true through arduous experiments in different settings. Some definitions for the more ignorant and stubborn people: Scientific Law by Wikipedia.

"So... According to the Fahrenheit scale of temperature, how hot is it outside?"

"The thermometer says it's 95 degrees Fahrenheit."

Aye, we use tools to measure things.

okay so Killersup worded that incorectly.He ment a single religion,is there a single religion that is "more" correct then science?


No, because they're all based on beliefs. However, there are religions that are more believable than others from science's view.
Pegasus16
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Pegasus16
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Peasant

Science, as has been said, is constantly changing. Religions are not, which has also been said. So which seems more logical? science with its ever changing theories that are thought to be proven through testing, or religion, which is believed as fact and does not change. Its either beileve in theories or believe in stories.

Kasic
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Its either beileve in theories or believe in stories.


Except one has the balls to admit when it's been proven wrong and improves upon current ideas, while the other calls it the work of yet another unconfirmed thing or heresy if you question it.
HahiHa
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As far as Christianity, it is more believable than say mythology because we can definitively prove that mythology did not happen. We know why there are diseases now and we know how certain things were created. We don't just make up stories to prove that they happened. That is the thing mythology was created to tell how something happened.

People back then didn't just make up stories either, they believed that their mythology was the way things actually were and lived according to it. Just as christianity.

You don't just make stories up about things we know today how they work, but about the things we don't know how they work yet, you still stick with the old tales from old books. Fine for me, but it sounds silly to think those are the absolute truth. Don't get me wrong, science doesn't give us the absolute truth either. But it makes sense in the present times.

Science is ever changing in the way that it is ever adapting, or correcting like Kasic said. Science is the current logical empirical understanding of our world, seen through our eyes and instruments. We will never find out all the truth, but for someone like me who possesses no faith in any deity, science is the way to understand this world.

You say it is the beauty of religion to believe in what you want (and it is your right to do so and this should be respected), but as much as I love ancient mythologies, I simply couldn't convince myself that they contain a bit of truth. I love to read legends, but when it comes to what is and what isn't, I rely on my own observations.

To the original question, I'd say that the monotheistic religions are a sort of adaptations compared to the polytheistic religions, who appeared in times where villages were smaller and people had less understanding of the world. If we think about a possible outlook on religions, I'm pretty sure that in the future people will be much more simply deistic and think about the actual monotheists the same way you think about the ancient polytheists. That is, if we continue to progress scientifically.
MageGrayWolf
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Gods,what is the difference however between believing in "mythology" and say for instance a Christan religion.


They are both mythology. It's just one is continued to be believed by the masses.

Does anybody have a answer to why it is more believed that their is one God and not many?


Indoctrination mostly.

Haha, I just wanted to point out that's an atheist's "weakness."


So it's a weakness to admit when you actually don't know something instead of making up a story and pretending you know? I'd call that a strength.

Its either beileve in theories or believe in stories.


Let's see believe something based on observation and repeated independent experimentation or believe something someone just made up, let me think about that one for a second....


Something I came across, not sure who Meg is but that's who's name was tagged for this quote.

"Ever wondered why relatively sane people of otherwise average intellect can look you in the eye and tell you, earnestly, that they have a personal relationship with a Jew who has been dead for 2,000 years? It's for the same reason you can have a conversation in your head with President Obama despite never having met him, and for the same reason the death of someone important to you is so incredibly difficult to digest.

We build models of other people in our brains. It's an ability we evolved to help us predict the behavior of other human animals, and a brain function critical for us to get along both with individuals and within a society.

When someone important to us dies, our model of them in our brain remains intact. We can still talk to them in our heads, which causes us tremendous cognitive dissonance. That, in turn, also leads to us working to prevent the deaths of others in order to avoid that horrible conflict within our brains, which ensures the survival of our species. So our ability to construct models of other people is a very powerful mechanism that has played a critical role in our development as a species.

Enter religion. Which confirms what your brain wrongly tells you due to the model of the deceased remaining intact in your head, that your loved one still exists despite the fact you have buried them. The religion assures you that they just live somewhere else now. Even better, the fear and torment they experienced during their death is no more. And you get to see them again and live with them forever and ever in a perfect place where nobody feels any pain. All you need to do is to follow the doctrine.

Oh, and by the way, if you buy into our particular brand of faith, you also gain contact to the ultimate alpha male who will protect you at all times. Just construct the model of him in your brain using the attributes stipulated by our dogma, assuage his ego by showing submission, and he'll like you better than he likes other people and hate all the same folks you do. He'll even punish them for pissing you off. And not just a little, but for all eternity in the most horrific scenario imaginable to the primitive minds that wrote our holy book.

Science, specifically neurology, is very close to a comprehensive model of why we believe in gods. It's a fascinating subject, and the person I think explains it as clearly in plain English as anyone can is Dr. Andy Thomson. This is a lecture he gave titled "Why We Believe in Gods" and he has published a book by the same name. The video is nearly an hour long, so if you don't have time to watch now, make sure to save the link or get the book at Amazon because, if you deal with the faithful on a regular basis and you want to understand what mechanism keeps them in denial and hooked on their faith like an addict, this is something you do not want to miss.
" -Meg

The video mentioned. Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson - American Atheists 09
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