ForumsWEPRChic-fil-A Controversy

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ryan7g
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ryan7g
478 posts
Shepherd

I'm sure most of you have heard of the Chic-fil-A controversy that has happened over the past month or so about the COO of the restaurant not supporting gay marriage.

If you haven't, here's the story. Dan Cathy, of Chick-fil-a said:

âWe are very much supportive of the family â" the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that."

They also came to light of donations to anti-gay political organizations, including the Family Research Council.

This sparked huge controversy nationwide, many protests, and gay rights supporters also staged a same-sex "kiss day" at stores nationwide on August 4, among other things.

Now I must ask, what are your thoughts on this whole situation?

  • 97 Replies
Devoidless
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Devoidless
3,678 posts
Jester

So he was using he political power here to voice his position. Which I do have to disagree with.


How is that any different from any other branch of the government? And for crying out loud, he's a mayor. That's about as low on the political power scale you can go.
Mayors are only mayor because they voice their opinion about several subjects. Often on behalf of the town/city. Why? Well, they were elected into office by the citizens of said town/city. For the well being of said town/city.

Do you think it would be any different if I wanted to start up a business called "Cat's Meow Bar" (while letting it be known that I was pro-choice) in, say, Texas and got denied a permit due to the mayor of a town disagreeing with my personal views?

Or if a white power group wanted to start a memorabilia storefront in Atlanta, Georgia (the birthplace of MLK Jr.)? Or if Satanists wanted to start anything anywhere?
Uysername
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Uysername
72 posts
Nomad

So tasty chicken is more important than not helping to take peoples rights away? (including your own if you so desire)


Yep.
Do you think it would be any different if I wanted to start up a business called "Cat's Meow Bar" (while letting it be known that I was pro-choice) in, say, Texas and got denied a permit due to the mayor of a town disagreeing with my personal views?

Or if a white power group wanted to start a memorabilia storefront in Atlanta, Georgia (the birthplace of MLK Jr.)? Or if Satanists wanted to start anything anywhere?


Those should all be allowed. And I agree with you that one of the roles of a mayor is that. So all dandy.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,981 posts
Grand Duke

I disagree. If freedom of expression spreads hate, should it be allowed? where I come from, no.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

Do you think it would be any different if I wanted to start up a business called "Cat's Meow Bar" (while letting it be known that I was pro-choice) in, say, Texas and got denied a permit due to the mayor of a town disagreeing with my personal views?

Or if a white power group wanted to start a memorabilia storefront in Atlanta, Georgia (the birthplace of MLK Jr.)? Or if Satanists wanted to start anything anywhere?


Strictly looking at it as someone wanting to open a business and the government denying them, no it's not any different. The persons personal views or what they plan on doing with the money they earn shouldn't factor into whether they can open a business or not. It's up to the customer to decide if they wish to support that business and what they plan to do with the money they give them.

I disagree. If freedom of expression spreads hate, should it be allowed? where I come from, no.


Having such an open freedom of expression also allows for those apposed to that hate mongering to speak out against it. It's a two way street.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,981 posts
Grand Duke

Having such an open freedom of expression also allows for those apposed to that hate mongering to speak out against it. It's a two way street.


Yes and that results in tensions. Not going to pass judgement on whatever happens outside, but we like to keep it under wraps and stamp out any hate speech before it gets too public.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,045 posts
Shepherd

I do agree if he had taken off the mayors sash and approached the company with this statement it would be a different matter. But seeing as the letter sent has the City of Bosons seal on it he was going to Chick-Fil-A as the mayor and not just as Mr.Menino So he was using he political power here to voice his position. Which I do have to disagree with.


I'm not too familiar with what is and is not acceptable when it comes to presentation. Even with that said, you made a good point.

I disagree. If freedom of expression spreads hate, should it be allowed? where I come from, no.


I fear the one who determines what is and is not considered hate more than those who preach hate.

Obama currently passed a law prohibiting anyone from protesting 2 hours before and after a soldier's funeral within a certain distance. This is an obvious counter measure against Westboro Baptist Church. What a great idea! Who wouldn't support such a law? Well, I wouldn't.

Having such an open freedom of expression also allows for those apposed to that hate mongering to speak out against it. It's a two way street.


Well said.

Fred Phelps stated that the church will continue to protest, despite the law that was passed. This means everyone who counter protests WBC will be breaking the law.

I will admit, however, that the law will likely work in preventing protests from the church. The members will be arrested, so there will be less need for counter protestors. That, I will give everyone supports this censorship. But there are still issues.

WBC is a small group that protests only so many funerals a year. This law, that effects all 300,000,000 of us, was created to stop a single group who's numbers aren't even in the triple digits.

The other problem with this censorship is that it will lead us down a slippery slope. If it's okay to censor people from protesting funerals, then what other times is it okay to censor people? I disagree with government censoring WBC because I believe in consistency when it comes to protecting freedom of speech. We should avoid getting picky and choosy when we can help it.

I'm against those who spread hate, but I support their freedom of expression. When people speak of hate, all you can do is counter with expressions of peace and love. When it comes to free speech, hate is very often shadowed by peace and love. There are some exceptions, such as areas where hate is engrained into society, but censorship enforced in such societies will likely be used to help spread more hate, not distinguish it.

We can't sacrifice our greatest freedoms to prevent people from abusing them. We must find alternative solutions.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,981 posts
Grand Duke

I fear the one who determines what is and is not considered hate more than those who preach hate.

Obama currently passed a law prohibiting anyone from protesting 2 hours before and after a soldier's funeral within a certain distance. This is an obvious counter measure against Westboro Baptist Church. What a great idea! Who wouldn't support such a law? Well, I wouldn't.


It is not implausible to state that the vast majority of people are agai st hate speech, and that the vast majority of veterans are against WBC. Freedom of expressions is such an overvalued ideal; if it spreads hate just for the sake of one individual having his say, with the effect of only causing an uproar, there is no grounds for him to have his freedom. There is never real freedom, one person's freedom will almost always clash with the freedom and space of another, and that's where the government has to step in, to do the best it can of demarcating spaces that maximizes the freedom of all people. If sacrificing one persons freedom for the sake of the vast majority of people is the end result, then it makes a much more convincing case to go with the former.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,981 posts
Grand Duke

I'm against those who spread hate, but I support their freedom of expression. When people speak of hate, all you can do is counter with expressions of peace and love. When it comes to free speech, hate is very often shadowed by peace and love. There are some exceptions, such as areas where hate is engrained into society, but censorship enforced in such societies will likely be used to help spread more hate, not distinguish it.


This was the naive ideal that allowed all the Fascist parties to get into power in the twenties, that hate filled speech will never grip the nation and get into mainstream thought. America might not have such political parties, but they're all the rage in Europe now, what with the BNP, Golden Dawn, PVV just to name a few. Such hate groups have to be stopped before they spread their creed into tangible laws that can actually adversely impact the lives of people.
Uysername
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Uysername
72 posts
Nomad

We can't sacrifice our greatest freedoms to prevent people from abusing them. We must find alternative solutions.


Amen brother.
Krill11
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Krill11
98 posts
Peasant

... And the kiss-day was nice? He cannot have an opinion, and actively support it without someone else with the opinion that his opinions are wrong and support the anti-support of his support? Why are families being discriminated against, eh? There is a lot of good that comes out of families; it defiantly outweighs the bad by a ton. And then the magical people that have the right to everyoneâs opinion and know instinctively by the magic that they possess, that the other people's opinion is wrong.

Isn't there an amendment that supports the freedom of believes?

~Krill11

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

... And the kiss-day was nice? He cannot have an opinion, and actively support it without someone else with the opinion that his opinions are wrong and support the anti-support of his support? Why are families being discriminated against, eh? There is a lot of good that comes out of families; it defiantly outweighs the bad by a ton. And then the magical people that have the right to everyoneâs opinion and know instinctively by the magic that they possess, that the other people's opinion is wrong.


Not quite sure what you're trying to get at or who this is a reply to.
Which families are being discriminated against?
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,254 posts
Regent

This was the naive ideal that allowed all the Fascist parties to get into power in the twenties, that hate filled speech will never grip the nation and get into mainstream thought. America might not have such political parties, but they're all the rage in Europe now, what with the BNP, Golden Dawn, PVV just to name a few. Such hate groups have to be stopped before they spread their creed into tangible laws that can actually adversely impact the lives of people.

Sadly true; hate speeches, especially in these times, will find more attentive ears than peace and love movements. Which is not to say that noone cares, but it has always been like that that the voices calling out and designing a scapegoat are louder than those telling us to resign and go on with the misery. I am aware that it is a delicate subject, but I support nicho's stand in that issue.

Which families are being discriminated against?

In case he means the traditional families, I would have to disagree. Traditional families aren't being discriminated, patchwork families are due to his support to openly anti-gay groups. It's perfectly fine and candy to want to support the traditional families, but you can do that without discriminating the contrary. Homosexual couples can make a family too and it is their right to do so.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

In case he means the traditional families, I would have to disagree. Traditional families aren't being discriminated, patchwork families are due to his support to openly anti-gay groups. It's perfectly fine and candy to want to support the traditional families, but you can do that without discriminating the contrary. Homosexual couples can make a family too and it is their right to do so.


Okay if that's the case it's not discrimination again traditional families to allow homosexuals to have equal rights and not be treated as second class in many ways. Really these sorts of organizations like The Family Research Center only use the term such as "family" or "children" as a mask for their real goals.
devsaupa
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devsaupa
1,810 posts
Nomad

Syrian government is killing hundreds a day. Okay, that sucks.
Gunmen kills people in a theater premiere. Wow, that sucks too.
Middle East has instability issues that won't go away. Cool.
Chic-fil-A CEO voices an opinion based on his religion. HOLY ****! HOW CAN THIS BE ALLOWED?!? BOYYYCOOOOTTTTTT!!!

Ahem, anyway, the media coverage on this was overkill. Sure, he gives money to what some of you call hate groups, which is inexcusable to some of you. Should we hunt down and go after all of their donators? I saw someone say that these hate groups used that money to try to sway politicians. So does the pro-gay group. Do these "hate groups" he funds murder people? Smuggle drugs on the side? Engage in human smuggling? Sad how people are at each others throat for differing viewpoints.

I hate modern day communism. Does this mean I'm not buying anything made in China? I can't survive without my Apple devices, so no. Neo-Nazis are generally not good people, with a few exceptions that I know of. Does this mean I am going to call for their rounding up and arrest? No. People boycott a place that serves good tasting food because of the corporation CEO's opinion so would it make you all happy if he was fired and replaced by someone who shared your viewpoints?

This means that we should boycott companies that support Repubs because Mittens has taken an anti-gay stance. A lot of what some users say on these forums, the WEPR in particular, I find to be worthless and ignorant, and some I think have grudges against a certain race or nation. Does this mean I am going to boycott AG or change my opinion of state/country those users live in? Probably not. Now if you will excuse me, I'm gonna head over to Chic-fil-A and buy some food. This thread made me hungry.

Jacen96
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Jacen96
3,087 posts
Bard

Whoa, devsaupa, you better be ready for a firestorm, (maybe)

I agree with you, the media has this tendency to make a big deal out of nothing (could probably think of another example, but i don't feel like it). And about the rainbow oreo, even if I wholeheartedly supported gays, i would not buy it. (who would want 2 inches of frosting on their oreo?)

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