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Anarchism

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:22pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,069 posts

Knight

To me this is main points that should happen if Anarchism (communism) should happen:

-No wage labor: You work according to your needs
-No currency ^
-No power, no class, everyone is equal

What if you want to work for someone else because you find both you and your employer profit more? Would you be allowed to do so in an anarchist community?

As for currency, you NEED currency. You can NOT depend on trade alone.

I believe anarcho-capitalism is more realistic than anarcho-communism. Without government, people will resort to whatever means is most beneficial to themselves. This means people will resort to using a currency because currency is a medium of exchange. People will also work for one another because it's more beneficial.

You can work for yourself, alone, which will result in only the most basic of necessities. If you want more, you have to work with other people. You will have to negotiate. People who have the means of production will let you use their machines for a price, they won't allow you to use them for free. This is how you end up with people working for others. That's not a bad thing, people have to work one way or another, and by working for others, everyone is the richer.

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:25pm

rafterman

rafterman

623 posts

-No currency ^

This(like pure anarchism) is impossible to sustain. Whether you like it or not, people will start trading(meaning Anarchy turns into Anarcho-Capitalism) resources which will inevitably lead to some sort of currency.

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:31pm

Salvidian

Salvidian

3,950 posts

Salvidian: I hope you are not referring to today's "Communist's" which in no is marxist communism. True communism is government, correct, but is ran by the people. There are no higher ups. Everyone is equal. That is where Anarcho-communism gets its roots from. Its not saying there will be governemnt, its saying that there are no presidents or congress etc. And I have to add, Anarcho-communism deals with the work place and economy more than anything.

Yeah, I probably should have said "old" Communism. My mistake.

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:35pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,069 posts

Knight

The Venus Project is a form of anarcho-communism. Stephan Molyneux is an anarcho-capitalist who debated the Venus Project on a radio show (I don't know if it was his show or someone else's show).

Stephan Molyneux discusses the Venus Project

If communism worked, you can achieve it through the free market.

If sharing everything you own and granting joint ownership to everyone who joins a company truly is more productive and desirable than the capitalist system, then it will naturally work in a free market. However, when you want and another person wants, ownership IS necessary.

Everyone is literally different from one another, which means there will be conflicts. There will be two people who won't want to share, and they won't come up with compromises. This happens enough as it is, but property rights allows us to get past these issues.

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:35pm

_Spaz_

_Spaz_

126 posts

Let me say this first:

"Anarcho-capitalism" is not Anarchy in any fashion.

Murray Rothbard the man who invented the idea of Anarcho-capitalism said himself that they are not anarchists, saying "we are not anarchists, and those who call us anarchists are not firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical" Because, all anarchists had socialistic elements in their doctrines and possessed socialistic economic doctrines in common" This is from his article called "Are Libertarians 'Anarchists'?"

In conclusion, it is not anarchism, you are just a capitalist. And what you will have on your hands is what we have today. Corruption and tons of power to the rich.

But I'm not done... there's more!

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:39pm

_Spaz_

_Spaz_

126 posts

"Anarcho capitalism is sort of like state socialism: nice in theory; individuals who own buisness and buy labor, others who sell labor and all that, in a world where there's no large, centralized power base but it has tons or real-world inapplicability. Invidiual and olipolic tyrannies being little substitute for state tyranny is one of them."

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:45pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,069 posts

Knight

Murray Rothbard the man who invented the idea of Anarcho-capitalism said himself that they are not anarchists, saying "we are not anarchists, and those who call us anarchists are not firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical" Because, all anarchists had socialistic elements in their doctrines and possessed socialistic economic doctrines in common" This is from his article called "Are Libertarians 'Anarchists'?"

Murray Rothbard is WRONG. Not all anarchists hold socialistic economic doctrines. That's like saying all communists are Russian.

In conclusion, it is not anarchism, you are just a capitalist. And what you will have on your hands is what we have today. Corruption and tons of power to the rich.

Do not use the word "power" if you do not understand what power is. The rich are "powerful" because they are able to bribe the government. THIS is why we have anarcho-capitalists. The rich have very little power when there isn't government to bribe.

That is anarcho-capitalism. Anarchism is a stateless society, and anarcho-capitalism is a stateless society that operates off a free market. That is literally a form of anarchy.

If you support a free-market that exists without government, you're an anarchist, and anyone who says otherwise is misconstruing the definition of anarchism.

Capitalism, socialism, and communism all have to do with economics. They can all theoretically be anarchist, or totalitarian. They can all be a democracy, or an autocracy.

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:49pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,069 posts

Knight

"Anarcho capitalism is sort of like state socialism: nice in theory; individuals who own buisness and buy labor, others who sell labor and all that, in a world where there's no large, centralized power base but it has tons or real-world inapplicability. Invidiual and olipolic tyrannies being little substitute for state tyranny is one of them."

It's impossible to discuss capitalism to someone who doesn't believe in competition.

What's even more scary is how you blatantly ignore all the problems associated with communism. You even suggested we go without currency. You have no idea how trade works at all, except for the basic "I give you A and you give me B." You fail to understand that trade must be consensual and if two people don't have what the other person wants, trade doesn't take place. In a society without currency, you WILL have this problem.

Currency exists as a medium so that two people who don't have objects the other desires can still trade.

Money is not the root of greed, desire for objects is the root of greed. You use money to buy said objects. Getting rid of money will not get rid of the desire for objects. That is a FACT.

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:51pm

_Spaz_

_Spaz_

126 posts

I feel like I have talked to you before about this in the past. lol. Capitalism creates unfair conditions.

Who regulates the currency and the market and the private armies and the courthouses? If this is Anarchists WHY do you need courthouses and armies? I never understood that.

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 9:55pm

_Spaz_

_Spaz_

126 posts

I actually mentioned the Ancom famous slogan "You work according to your needs" I do'nt see how I ignored that. You really don't need money which yes, objects create greed. An why are you assuming All of this? I never mentioned or even said "Trade A for B" ?Where do you get this from. If you know anything about Ancom you know we go off a different form of trading or exchanging. Research time?

 
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