ForumsWEPRTensions with Iran

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EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,427 posts
Jester

The Department of Defense just disclosed that a US drone was fired upon over international waters last week (here). This is considered an act of war under international law. What happens next? Nothing? Tighter sanctions? War? Discuss.

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hojoko
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hojoko
510 posts
Shepherd

British empire had 121 wars (including rebellions) between
from 1700 to 2011
that is one war every two and a half year.
and I count 18 rebellions.


Exactly! The argument that America is an especially violent nation is invalid.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,168 posts
Bard

You don't seem to understand. It's not something that would be easy to recover from.

even if i bleed dead. it will be worth it.

Greece? Spain? Ireland? They certainly haven't had an easy time.

last time i checked we were talking about china.
Japan actually has a defense force

a small defence force that most countries can win from.
if military power was the most importent thing. then how come no one has puched over the japanese government yet?

Militaries are just necessary for defense.

yes.
but that is not how the usa has used it's military for the last 65 year.
they used it to attack.

False. In the past 3,400 years, there have only been an estimated 268 years of peace. America is not unique in that respect.

usa has more years in war then that years they exist. (due to more wars at the same time)
also are all those wars you talk about not the cause of 1 country.
1 country involved in a new war every 2 year sure has never happened.
Specifically starting with the Meiji Restoration until the end of WWII, I think you'll find that the Japanese were incredibly nationalistic and violent. However, Japan has a long, long history of wars between rival shogunates and clans.

as i did all the time. i'm talking about now and after ww2.
ofcourse i know their history and their part of ww2.
but i say they have gone the right way after ww2. and usa has gone the wrong way since ww2.

British empire had 121 wars (including rebellions) between
from 1700 to 2011
that is one war every two and a half year.
and I count 18 rebellions.

i'm talking whitout rebbellions.
i mean mean full size wars that takes years. not wars that toke 1 week as the british had some.

also were the britsh very hated in the past in the colonies they concurred. and were they seen as violent people. just as the africans saw the dutch during the VOC.
but i'm not talking about history remember.
i'm talking about today. and today USA is the killing psychopath under all the nations.

now if you change your policy and can show for lets say 50 year that you are no longer power hungry killers. then i will be happy to discard that opinion. but it doesn't change that you are power hungry killers today.
danielo
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danielo
1,776 posts
Shepherd

True partydevil, because attacking the nazis was such a cruel act. driving the comumnism and defending democracy {Yes, democracy. In places russia controled there was a dictatorship. in USA controled there is a democracy} was so evil. You take this as grunted partydevil. USA saved the western world and life style *** more then once. As much as i dont like some aspects of USA, I cant deny that.

And i didnt got in what japan went better? by the fact they dont go to wars anymore? By the fact they are a somewhat Minor nation in the political world? Its like saying that Lichtenstein is a better country.

If USA is down, our beloced western life style and cultur will be gone too.
What do you prefer? The Muslim Theocracy's, the Slavic facsism or the Chiniese Iron fist party? I dont say all the muslims country are like this or all the slavic nations are the same, but these are the othere powers in our world now. so you tell me - in which will you prefer to live? USA, Russia, China or Iran?

Iran is Threatening that they will destroy Israel. They are Threatening that they will destroy USA. they are Threatening that they will destroy Brittiain. So USA need to sit back and say "but tehy are the under dog! we need to make it even first"? They need to let Afganistan become a Global Terrorism center, because drones are unfair? because the poor taliban just try to save the country froom teh evil USA militia?

So yea, USA was in some wars since 1945. And what is that? Vietnam is not a democracy now? Korea is not a big north korea, there is a democratic free south part? There is a democratic bubble in the middle east, and not another curropted Muslim country {i mean come on, Assad, mubarak and the rest of teh gang are not a elected presidents. as much as these countries might be OK, there ruling class is not so innocent}.
Do USA need to sorry for that? For trying to make the world better?

You Liberals are making me sick sometimes.
There is a joke - what the diffrunce between a liberal and a cannibale? Cannibalse dont eat there own peoples.

Everything that is not losing is wrong. USA? wrong. Israel? wrong.
Belive me, in Iram you will never be able to write these opinions. In china too. and in Russia {putin is behind you!}.

thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
1,830 posts
Peasant

True partydevil, because attacking the nazis was such a cruel act. driving the comumnism and defending democracy {Yes, democracy. In places russia controled there was a dictatorship. in USA controled there is a democracy} was so evil. You take this as grunted partydevil. USA saved the western world and life style *** more then once. As much as i dont like some aspects of USA, I cant deny that.

While supporting dictatorships in Pakistan, South Americas and Arabia?
They helped Europe because it was in their advantage.
It was more of a great game B/W Reds and Capitalists.
If USA is down, our beloced western life style and cultur will be gone too.
What do you prefer? The Muslim Theocracy's, the Slavic facsism or the Chiniese Iron fist party? I dont say all the muslims country are like this or all the slavic nations are the same, but these are the othere powers in our world now. so you tell me - in which will you prefer to live? USA, Russia, China or Iran?

What if I love to live in Iran as it is but america shoves its snout there and installs an america's ***** "democratic" govrnment like Afghanistan or Iraq.
Iran is Threatening that they will destroy Israel. They are Threatening that they will destroy USA. they are Threatening that they will destroy Brittiain. So USA need to sit back and say "but tehy are the under dog! we need to make it even first"? They need to let Afganistan become a Global Terrorism center, because drones are unfair? because the poor taliban just try to save the country froom teh evil USA militia?

Lasrt time I checked, Israel and USA were threatning to use force.
As for afghanistan, america did interfare for no reason.
Taliban offerred Binladen
So yea, USA was in some wars since 1945. And what is that? Vietnam is not a democracy now? Korea is not a big north korea, there is a democratic free south part?

At cost of ! million causaulities, Vietnam still is a Socialist republic.
US lost this round of the game
Korea is a Tie, both players get 5 points.
There is a democratic bubble in the middle east, and not another curropted Muslim country {i mean come on, Assad, mubarak and the rest of teh gang are not a elected presidents. as much as these countries might be OK, there ruling class is not so innocent}.
Do USA need to sorry for that? For trying to make the world better?

Do we really have to go through this again?
danielo
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danielo
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Shepherd

Firstly, didnt recognized you punisher, new amatar.

Secondley, yea, USA is not innocent too. Sure, i dont like part of it as much as you do. The greedingness, this crusade like passion of "saving the world". But what can i do? There is democracy in europe now after the soviets felt. there is democracy in asia. what can we say? for there advanted it will sayed that they made the world a batter place. even if not perfect. Is USA, if rommny lose the election, then obama win. In Iran, Hamedinijad win. The other are traitors and terrorists. In USA protesters.. well bad exmple. In Israel, protesters are in the worst case are get arrested {im not talking about the west bank. this situation has to be solved}, while in Iran they will shot you or capture you and turtore you. If a muslim will come visit Israel, well, no one will care. In the worst event, the security guard will demand to search him over and over. In Iran, a jewish man will get arrested for "spying".
When something is wrong in England, its the politicans guilty. In Iran, its USA, Israel adn England guilty. and hey, didnt they sent a hurrican on USA?

A religios government is never a good thing. Im against it in Israel. im against it in USA ,adn im against it in Iran. So far, Iran is the one who close night clubs for beign agaisnt the religion, Not any other of these evil evil countries.

thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
1,830 posts
Peasant

A religios government is never a good thing. Im against it in Israel. im against it in USA ,adn im against it in Iran. So far, Iran is the one who close night clubs for beign agaisnt the religion, Not any other of these evil evil countries.

Its a good thing they closed them, they should remain closed
When something is wrong in England, its the politicans guilty. In Iran, its USA, Israel adn England guilty. and hey, didnt they sent a hurrican on USA?

Oh, tell me again how West has not put sanctions on them?
Secondley, yea, USA is not innocent too. Sure, i dont like part of it as much as you do. The greedingness, this crusade like passion of "saving the world". But what can i do? There is democracy in europe now after the soviets felt. there is democracy in asia. what can we say? for there advanted it will sayed that they made the world a batter place. even if not perfect. Is USA, if rommny lose the election, then obama win. In Iran, Hamedinijad win.

They have their issues too.
But those issues are Their issues
its not USA's or UK's its iran's issue.
In Iran, a jewish man will get arrested for "spying".

Just like many muslims are arrested and interrogated in USA.
Given the recent relations b/w West and Iran, its no wonder they arrested him.
Please, don't give me the examples of Israel, who are slowly starving the palestinians to death.
hojoko
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hojoko
510 posts
Shepherd

a small defence force that most countries can win from.
if military power was the most importent thing. then how come no one has puched over the japanese government yet?


I would greatly appreciate it if you would read my entire post. I agree with you. Military power is not the most important factor of either the United States' or Japan's power and influence. Like I already stated, that comes from their economies, which also act as a form of defense from countries with ties to their economies (in this case, the entire first-world).

However, a military defense force is necessary for defense from smaller nations not tied to the economy. Japan hasn't been taken over because no nation not tied to their economy has the military power to fight Japan and it's allies (most notably NATO).

Also, you seem to have drawn the assumption that I condone mass warfare. I do not. I never claimed to. For the most part I agree with you. Excessive warfare is incredibly undesirable.

My point was that in a historical context the United States is not a uniquely violent nation considering it's influence and power. This does not mean America is not a violent nation. However, I would argue that compared to the British Empire and Rome we are actually less violent if only because we are not an Empire. We invade countries and depose governments, but we do not conquer, and as such we don't have nearly as high account of atrocities against foreign civilian populations (not to say that there are none. There are still plenty).

Furthermore, how many of these wars were initiated by America, and how many did America just participate in? It would be great if you could provide a link for your statistics.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,168 posts
Bard

True partydevil, because attacking the nazis was such a cruel act.


1. i never said it was ALL bad. some actions are justified.
2. is talk about AFTER ww2. the nazis were gone. i talk about the 27 other wars.

====
thats it for today. i g2g sleep now, i make to long days atm.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,168 posts
Bard

Military power is not the most important factor of either the United States


that is not what the americans are bragging about. they are all the time bragging about how great they are and instantly refer to their military.
and that is what makes me angry. the close mindedness of those americans. and it are a ****load that think like that and use the military to brag about how much greater they are then anyone els.

so every time i see another american spewing this ****. i'm going in full force. no matter what.
hojoko
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hojoko
510 posts
Shepherd

Well I'm an American and I'm not bragging about military power. I would encourage everyone to be open-minded, and not automatically assume knowledge of someone's beliefs based on their nationality.

Closed-mindedness is not unique to America either.

is talk about AFTER ww2. the nazis were gone. i talk about the 27 other wars.


Again, I'm really interested in this, and everywhere I look seems to count a different number of american conflicts, so it'd be awesome if you could post the link where you got that statistic from
danielo
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danielo
1,776 posts
Shepherd

Not only WW2. If you read my post you will see that i mentioned korea as well and vietnam.

So ok i got it, punisher, you are a radical. Night clubs are places of sins by your logic. If the religion tell so, it most be true.

partydevil
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partydevil
5,168 posts
Bard

arg i just made a long post and then i clicked wrong, now everything is gone.
sorry but i don't have the time to explain it as i wanted anymore you'll have to do whit a short-sighted version of it.

==========

Well I'm an American and I'm not bragging about military power. I would encourage everyone to be open-minded, and not automatically assume knowledge of someone's beliefs based on their nationality.
Closed-mindedness is not unique to America either.

i'm not a racist. i know your not all like that. i even have some american friends that i know i can really trust on.
if i thought all of you are like that. then i would have never went into this discussion whit you.
(here i explained how to filter out the close minded whitin a sec. and some examples of how and when you (your media/country) makes non americans hate you just by the american attitude)

Again, I'm really interested in this, and everywhere I look seems to count a different number of american conflicts,

here is said some more. but i'll just post a link now.
Not only WW2. If you read my post you will see that i mentioned korea as well and vietnam.

what you want me to say? because you killed more people you are better?
sorry but by my morals the 1 who kills the least is the better.
and good job you mentioned 2 more countries. now go for all those mentioned in the reply above this quote. GL.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
1,830 posts
Peasant

So ok i got it, punisher, you are a radical. Night clubs are places of sins by your logic. If the religion tell so, it most be true

If me and my country want to live like this, you or USA has a problem with it?
Why do you want to install a "Democratic" or "Secular" regime where people don't want it?
danielo
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danielo
1,776 posts
Shepherd

What about hte peopels who do? You talk like the entire muslim world is full with monks and nuns.

You can choose what you want. that what USA is all about.

You want to live a religius life style? you can. want to lve 'wild'? you can. No one tell you "taht is against the religion, so you cant".
And if the new sharia will tell that using internet is against Islam? will you quite from here because we are a bad influence?

I dont have anything against Islam or against any other religion. you may do whatever you want. no one is stoping you. you try to teach everyone what is the best life style by your ideaoligy. And this is wrong in my opinion.
you want a dictatorship of a Muslim tryant who will force everyone to do what he {and maybe the major of the peopels} think is piety.

And about you partydevil.

The best army is the one who keep the interest of his country. Is most of the world communist/dictatorship? No. Does USA is under the control of a forighen country? No. Does USA is under the threat of another country? Mostly no. This make the US army one of the best.
The IDF cant. We cant stop all of our threat all by ourselve.

sure, for your exmple japan as good allies. But they didnt went to war since 1945. well, at least not a major one {they do send troops to korea}. So they dont need an army. like most of europe do, or canada for say. There armies are mostly to support the US army if needed.

thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
1,830 posts
Peasant

What about hte peopels who do? You talk like the entire muslim world is full with monks and nuns.

You can choose what you want. that what USA is all about.

What if majority wants it?
And if the new sharia will tell that using internet is against Islam?

There can't be any "New Sharia law"
Islam is, what Islam was 1400 years ago.
Sure, new things come along and they are classified as Halal and Haraam(Right and Wrong)
There are some things in Islam which are not Haraam themselves, but they can be used for haraam, like weapons or Internet.
I dont have anything against Islam or against any other religion. you may do whatever you want. no one is stoping you. you try to teach everyone what is the best life style by your ideaoligy. And this is wrong in my opinion.

And this is the exact same thing that USA does.
I dont have anything against Islam or against any other religion. you may do whatever you want. no one is stoping you. you try to teach everyone what is the best life style by your ideaoligy. And this is wrong in my opinion.
you want a dictatorship of a Muslim tryant who will force everyone to do what he {and maybe the major of the peopels} think is piety.

Now you are talking from your hand
What if Majority does not want change like Saudi arabia.
Sure, there is "Dictatorship" by weatren standards but poeple are not in streets chanting for regime change?
You will say they have not invaded KSA.
Right, they have not, because its against their interests.
USA never does anything for charity, as a matter of fact, no nation does.
So stop painting them as some hospital nation.
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