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Posted Dec 18, '12 at 11:06pm nichodemus 10,777 posts	hey used it to survive from day to day by their main source of defence and food. How would they have faired against the wildlife in North America? They surely wouldn't of been able to control all that land as easily and explore it all. You know how guns have influenced our society helpfully? Do you now need to go out to the wild to hunt for game? Do you need a shotgun to go to the local Walmart? Yes they have helped, but they aren't used in such a fashion by the vast majority of people anymore. If you were in the old west would you want to be on your farm with nothing to protect you but a simple bow, arrow, or sword? I'm pretty sure exploring the wilderness that Grizzly Bear would of killed alot more explorers. Is this the Old West now? Nope. As we have already made quite clear, we don't support the banning of guns, but for good reasons. Self defense in the wild from game is a legitimate reason that most countries accept. And Nic, have you actually owned a gun before? It helps if you've actually owned, handled, and used it before to try and talk about it. Otherwise you don't really know anything about the item you are talking about. There are tons of forumms here I would like to post in but I don't know much about those things so I know I shouldn't post there. Yeah I have. Military grade. I told you I'm an army conscript didn't I? We get to handle them sometimes before going in. But that's beside the point. Knowing the ins and outs of a dozen guns grants me the mechanical knowledge, but it leaves me bereft of knowledge of gun politics unless I read, which I do. Bah humbag you alcohol Prohibitionist Party.

Posted Dec 18, '12 at 11:10pm partydevil 4,661 posts	What about the settlers in the old days? do you live in the year 2012 or the year 1712? plz. update yourself to the age we actually live in. If you were in the old west you live in the old west? i hope for you you dont. but still be aware of billy the kid ;) there is a bounty on his head. have you actually owned a gun before? It helps if you've actually owned, handled, and used it before to try and talk about it. wasn't mend to me but still... yes ive been in the military and i had to shoot at some people. Bah humbag you alcohol Prohibitionist Party. hehe, well it's just a principle point. i have no problem if people use it. they got their alcohol. i got my marijuana. it's funny to watch drunk people so hail alcohol. =P but deep inside i think it should be illegal. but where is the fun then? =/

Posted Dec 18, '12 at 11:17pm nichodemus 10,777 posts	Let's just both go back to our high stupors then.

Posted Dec 18, '12 at 11:18pm 404011xz 215 posts	I'm related to billy the kid... or one of those old western bandits, I'm pretty sure my dad said BIlly the Kid. If they make alcohol illegal and not weed then something is wrong. and Party. I was stating how guns were good, without them North America would of probably not be settled around the time it did. If you think I actually believed I lived back then then that weed has really affected your brain cells.

Posted Dec 18, '12 at 11:29pm nichodemus 10,777 posts	I'm related to billy the kid... or one of those old western bandits, I'm pretty sure my dad said BIlly the Kid. My question is, so? Doesn't change the fact that this isn't the OWW anymore. I was stating how guns were good, without them North America would of probably not be settled around the time it did. No one denied that. But what we have stated is, this is no longer the case. Premise false, conclusion follows.

Posted Dec 18, '12 at 11:44pm 404011xz 215 posts	I'm just saying. he mentioned him so I decided to say how I'm related. Or would you like to take my freedom of speach away as well? Guns are still very necesary in the more untamed sections of the US. Look at alaska, Where people can live miles away from towns and where nobody but that gun can stop that charging Bear. What is your other option? Shoot him with a crossbow? maybe that will wound him and slow him down but even with that huge sword that bear is gun tear you apart stilll. Only difference is both of you die this way.

Posted Dec 18, '12 at 11:51pm nichodemus 10,777 posts	I'm just saying. he mentioned him so I decided to say how I'm related. Or would you like to take my freedom of speach away as well? Oh no, but it sounded almost like it was a premise. Almost. here people can live miles away from towns and where nobody but that gun can stop that charging Bear. What is your other option? Shoot him with a crossbow? maybe that will wound him and slow him down but even with that huge sword that bear is gun tear you apart stilll. Only difference is both of you die this way. Which part of Is this the Old West now? Nope. As we have already made quite clear, we don't support the banning of guns, but for good reasons. Self defense in the wild from game is a legitimate reason that most countries accept. did you not read?

Posted Dec 19, '12 at 12:01am 404011xz 215 posts	The idea of gun control is to make it harder to get guns no matter what they are needed for. They won't simply ban them in California and then let the fly around in alaska or Washington state. No they are planning on taking guns away from EVERYBODY. That is their ultimate end goal. and here are some examples of how gun control has harmed a few nations: Gun Control: A Look at Anti-Gun Laws & Anti Gun Nations In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. �"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"- In 1911,Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. �"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"- Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. �"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"- China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated �"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"- Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. �"- �"�"�"�"- �"�"�"�"- Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. �"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"- Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. �"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�" Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million. �"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"�"- You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property. Gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens, because while the law abiding citizens turn in their guns, the criminals do not, they still possess their guns. SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN…SWITZERLAND’S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE TO. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

Posted Dec 19, '12 at 12:08am nichodemus 10,777 posts	The idea of gun control is to make it harder to get guns no matter what they are needed for. They won't simply ban them in California and then let the fly around in alaska or Washington state. No they are planning on taking guns away from EVERYBODY. That is their ultimate end goal. and here are some examples of how gun control has harmed a few nations: No one has stated this. You're simply stating an unfounded hypothetical scenario. Here's another. We continue piling on guns, and one day the States implode. Does that sound fair? No, because it is not backed, and is farfetched. In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. A man with a pistol is going to go up against the greatest and most bloody purges of all times? A pistol going against the most powerful Communist government? Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. By Idi Amin, the world's top fruitcake, and the Ugandan army. Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. None of the Jews knew where they were going, and most were bluffed into thinking they were going to work camps, right till the showers. Also, going against the almighty German army and Nazi government? Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. You want to fight the Khmer Rogue? Be my guest. China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated Chinese civil war. Good luck going up against both of the huge and heavily armed armies. Notice the trend here? These are all scenarios where the people are up against the national army, during wartime or political revolutions. Simply stating that a gun is the cure is absurd, because such guns are pitiful compared to the military might possessed by real armies. SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN…SWITZERLAND’S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE TO. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!! You never read what we have all posted. Switzerland TRAINS its people from young to be CIVIC MINDED and care for the COMMUNITY. They're weapons are issued because of Switzerland's unique defense system of a militia, each person is taught that the gun is used to defend the COMMUNITY. That's why they have such a low crime rate with guns (apart from being immensely rich and welfare state driven). By contrast, the US doesn't instil national training and such spirit in everyone.

Posted Dec 19, '12 at 12:18am 404011xz 215 posts	You really are missing the point. Right after they implament these gun controls a few years later, sometimes that very year, Mass Murder is commited. You know what a government fears? Armed citizens because they aren't able to do as they please. And no, not one pearson can stop an army, but 20 million chinese? I'm pretty sure their army doesn't have that many,same with the soviet unnion. Can you hold off 20 million soldiers? You don't have a tank for every single soldier to stand behind, soon the military's body count goes up and it doesn't help them them any. And come on, look at the body count after they did all this. Millions died because they thought that the government was supposedly protecting them from themselves when they took away their only means of defence.

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