Forums → WEPR → Printed Guns and Arms Laws
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The wonderful 3D printers have given rise to an issue: one can download designs for a gun and print it via a 3D printer. You may have heard of this, if not, you can look up 3D printer guns and you'll find articles.
Naturally, the guns are neither strong nor capable of multiple shots, but that does not matter. You can still kill someone. Now, do you believe that when 3D printers are made available for cheap that we should slacken gun laws? Maybe the answer to the gun problem is if everyone is carrying a gun, even kids, there won't be issues. Or should we ban 3D printers and hope that these weak but still functional firearms never make it to the wrong people?
Personally, I think that the gun laws should be slackened. Once something is publicly available for cheap, it's hard to control it. Naturally, if we slacken the gun laws it stands to reason other weapons will most likely become allowed too, but maybe not.
But what do you think?
- 64 Replies
Seriously? People are worried about these?? With less than $15 and a little know how I can run down to home depot and make a disposable, multishot 20ga shotgun in a matter of minutes.
The reality of firearms is that no matter what laws are in place, a determined individual will find a way to get what they want.
But it deters those who aren't as determined.
Yes, I am worried about this 15 dollar gun. Because this is just the infancy stage of the technology.
But it deters those who aren't as determined.
^this.
Just because there will always be someone outsmarting the restrictions, doesn't justify giving everyone the opportunity to do so.
1. yes it can be taken of the cloud if it must be taken of by law. if it doesn't happen then eventually the cloud has to go down. or the owner of it keeps paying a ****load.
2. if the owner of the cloud is on usa ground then it has to keep itself in line whit the usa laws. no matter where the data in his cloud is stored.
I was using The Cloud as more of a collective term for the internet. The kid that made these first models of 3D guns got his website taken down, but the blueprints were already uploaded to a dozen other sites by the time it was. These blueprints were like heads of a hydra. Taking one down made 2 more pop up.
Piracy is also illegal, which is why most pirating sites are overseas and virtually untouchable (I still question the legality of going after Megaupload). For the most part, websites like these are out of our jurisdiction, unless you could get a world wide ban on 3d-printed guns.
You cannot delete them off of the internet, because they will be saved on hundreds of computers worldwide.
I was using The Cloud as more of a collective term for the internet. The kid that made these first models of 3D guns got his website taken down, but the blueprints were already uploaded to a dozen other sites by the time it was. These blueprints were like heads of a hydra. Taking one down made 2 more pop up.
they can track exactly where the schematics have been send to. and where it further was send to. they can take it down if they really want to.
Piracy is also illegal, which is why most pirating sites are overseas and virtually untouchable
cause piracy is not illegal everywhere.
websites like these are out of our jurisdiction, unless you could get a world wide ban on 3d-printed guns.
you do know you quoted someone that does not fall under your jurisdiction either, right? the world is not all about usa. this isn't a usa problem. their problem is the slacky gun controle in general.
a ban on the printers is just stupid, they are very very useful.
a ban on free blueprints are heavy jail sentences for those that create and distributes weapon blueprints is more what we should aim for.
You cannot delete them off of the internet, because they will be saved on hundreds of computers worldwide.
that can all be traced down. just how much effort do you want to spend in getting it of the i-net? if you start whit "it can't be done" then you wont be able.
they can track exactly where the schematics have been send to. and where it further was send to. they can take it down if they really want to.
that can all be traced down. just how much effort do you want to spend in getting it of the i-net? if you start whit "it can't be done" then you wont be able.
It's not that simple. Saying, "if they really wanted to, they could" has no merit whatsoever. Yes, they can trace it, but only to an extent. When they went out to places the U.S.A. had no jurisdiction, they can't do a single thing. They can find out who download it from some sites, but that's all. So once newer, more well designed gun designs get out, the U.S.A. will once again not be able to stop them. That's why those designs are still out there, and that's why they will remain out there.
When they went out to places the U.S.A. had no jurisdiction, they can't do a single thing.
pfffff i'm getting tierd of saying this isn't that much of a usa problem.
but people keep coming back whit usa jurisdiction ****.
it's not likely the usa is going to give a crap anyway.... usa gun control is already bad. the americans are to much power hungry anyway. and these printed guns are just the power they adore so much.
so i am not even thinking about what the usa is able to or want to. because the usa isn't going to give a **** about it.
it's a problem of the civilized world, not usa.
That's why those designs are still out there, and that's why they will remain out there.
they are still out there because there is no law to forbids it. it's like that whit allot of things. just look at cars. when cars where new to this world anyone could drive it as fast as they want anywhere they want on any age they want to.
but latter when it started to give problems (like driving 200km/h on a sandroad that is mainly used by horses.) that makes laws come to existend and say when are allowed to drive max 120km/h
that is why they are still around. not because the usa government why doesn't give a **** isn't able to catch it. the just are not allowed to catch it because there is no law.
(i hope i dont have to say this again a million times befor some1 starts to understand it...)
Yes, they can trace it, but only to an extent. When they went out to places the U.S.A. had no jurisdiction, they can't do a single thing.
We don't need the US to do it for us. We have our own gun laws, controls, and our own enforcements to do that for us.
it's a problem of the civilized world, not usa.
+1, though:
It's a problem of the world, which includes the US, but we should also view the issue in terms of what other nations should view it!
It's a problem of the world, which includes the US,
more guns... i dont see how the usa is going to have a problem whit it.
the more guns, the better.
cause piracy is not illegal everywhere.
This is EXACTLY my point. You would need a universal consensus about these blueprints being illegal in every single country in the world. If any country doesn't, then these will still be produced. Do you really think we can get this universal consensus on the 3d printed guns?
This is EXACTLY my point. You would need a universal consensus about these blueprints being illegal in every single country in the world. If any country doesn't, then these will still be produced. Do you really think we can get this universal consensus on the 3d printed guns?
except that you dont need that...
the world does not hide information about the Tiananmen Square Massacre. but you wont be able to find anything about it when your in china...
any country can block this information on it's own if they want to. (if they have reason to, in the form of a law)
Let's do a quick poll here.
Who thinks it's a good idea for more governments to start hiding information they disagree from their citizens with like China does?
Who thinks it's a good idea for more governments to start hiding information they disagree from their citizens with like China does?
maybe you wanna check google's transparency reports.
especially the government removal requests
Who thinks it's a good idea for more governments to start hiding information they disagree from their citizens with like China does?
Western governments already do that.
I live in the the UK, where we don't have the gun culture that's more or less unique to the US; and gun control is extremely strict. That having been said, I have fired guns before; so I do to an extent get the appeal of owning weapons. Now, I'm not all brushed up on statistics; but I'm pretty sure that we get far fewer spree killings over here, even when you adjust for the difference in population. Killings are common: I'm not denying that they happen without guns. However, I think that the fact remains that firearms make it much easier for an individual or a small group of individuals to harm a great many people in a short amount of time.
Cutting to the chase; wouldn't tougher universal gun controls reduce the risk to the population from guns; including 3D printed ones? I don't know how practical or feasible it would be to extend those controls to cyberspace: i.e. if it would be possible to stop people uploa.ding/downloading those blueprints.
I appreciate that this might be a discussion for a different thread.
This is EXACTLY my point. You would need a universal consensus about these blueprints being illegal in every single country in the world. If any country doesn't, then these will still be produced. Do you really think we can get this universal consensus on the 3d printed guns?
We don't have a general consensus that racial equality, or democracy should stand, yet we adopted it. We don't have an international consensus on nuclear proliferation, yet we still undertook a set of principles.
We don't need a universal consensus. Even if someone from the UK downloads a print from an American uploader, the national laws would still apply to him.
I live in the the UK, where we don't have the gun culture that's more or less unique to the US; and gun control is extremely strict. That having been said, I have fired guns before; so I do to an extent get the appeal of owning weapons. Now, I'm not all brushed up on statistics; but I'm pretty sure that we get far fewer spree killings over here, even when you adjust for the difference in population. Killings are common: I'm not denying that they happen without guns. However, I think that the fact remains that firearms make it much easier for an individual or a small group of individuals to harm a great many people in a short amount of time.
Cutting to the chase; wouldn't tougher universal gun controls reduce the risk to the population from guns; including 3D printed ones? I don't know how practical or feasible it would be to extend those controls to cyberspace: i.e. if it would be possible to stop people uploa.ding/downloading those blueprints.
+1
Why do we only talk about criminals getting them? As the tech progresses why would regular people not want to have them?
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